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Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

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Imurg said:
But why is there a divide?
There was a referendum in 2011 about an alternative voting system. Whichever side lost accepted it and moved on.
Ok, this is bigger but the principle is, or should, be the same.
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The reason why I would have thought would be quite clear - there are millions within the country that work in an area that rely on a good relationship , a free trade and movement relationship with the EU - people saw a future with the EU , they wanted to stay in the EU and the vote was very close - right now there are 3 mil plus votes in some sort of petition - that should show you how much some people want to stay in the EU - so the result was always going to be very divisive

One side won, one side didn't
Any animosity, other than that aimed at the pathetic group currently sitting in Westminster, is down to the side that lost the vote not getting behind the decision and working towards obtaining the best possible exit strategy.
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Won ? Lost ? Straight away that carries a air of arrogance when people start pointing towards people being “losers” - and right now no one is winning and the country is losing

And right now there is animosity on all sides

If that had happened, both politicians and the general public, we might not be in the mess we are in.
Those that voted leave want to leave, those that voted to stay, or didn't even vote, haven't, in significant numbers, accepted that they didn't win the vote and are trying their hardest to derail the process by whatever means they can.
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See all you are doing is pointing fingers at people who voted to leave - and yet you ask why there is such a divide ? Maybe stop pointing fingers for a start and tell me how exactly the people who voted to stay are trying to derail the process - after the vote what exactly can they do ? A March - what difference does that make ? A petition ? Again doesn’t really make a difference

Maybe the people who voted to leave should stop blaming people who voted to stay for the way Brexit is going - maybe they should look at themselves for a start and understand that this whole process was always going to be a massive divisive process that was going to be a complete nightmare
 
Liverpoolphil said:
The reason why I would have thought would be quite clear - there are millions within the country that work in an area that rely on a good relationship , a free trade and movement relationship with the EU - people saw a future with the EU , they wanted to stay in the EU and the vote was very close - right now there are 3 mil plus votes in some sort of petition - that should show you how much some people want to stay in the EU - so the result was always going to be very divisive



Won ? Lost ? Straight away that carries a air of arrogance when people start pointing towards people being “losers” - and right now no one is winning and the country is losing

And right now there is animosity on all sides



See all you are doing is pointing fingers at people who voted to leave - and yet you ask why there is such a divide ? Maybe stop pointing fingers for a start and tell me how exactly the people who voted to stay are trying to derail the process - after the vote what exactly can they do ? A March - what difference does that make ? A petition ? Again doesn’t really make a difference

Maybe the people who voted to leave should stop blaming people who voted to stay for the way Brexit is going - maybe they should look at themselves for a start and understand that this whole process was always going to be a massive divisive process that was going to be a complete nightmare
Click to expand...
Well, that week or so flew past quickly. Have we left yet.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
The reason why I would have thought would be quite clear - there are millions within the country that work in an area that rely on a good relationship , a free trade and movement relationship with the EU - people saw a future with the EU , they wanted to stay in the EU and the vote was very close - right now there are 3 mil plus votes in some sort of petition - that should show you how much some people want to stay in the EU - so the result was always going to be very divisive



Won ? Lost ? Straight away that carries a air of arrogance when people start pointing towards people being “losers” - and right now no one is winning and the country is losing

And right now there is animosity on all sides



See all you are doing is pointing fingers at people who voted to leave - and yet you ask why there is such a divide ? Maybe stop pointing fingers for a start and tell me how exactly the people who voted to stay are trying to derail the process - after the vote what exactly can they do ? A March - what difference does that make ? A petition ? Again doesn’t really make a difference

Maybe the people who voted to leave should stop blaming people who voted to stay for the way Brexit is going - maybe they should look at themselves for a start and understand that this whole process was always going to be a massive divisive process that was going to be a complete nightmare
Click to expand...

And there are millions that wanted to Leave. They won the vote that they were told would be honoured.

There is a difference between losing and the connotations you’re applying to being a loser. In that respect you’re looking for something that isn’t there.

Both sides are pointing fingers. Right from Day 1 many Remainers have squealed unfair, too close, compromise. Leavers have shouted out means out, and have become increasingly frustrated by a Remain PM selling them short.

I don’t think Leave will happen at all. In my opinion, on such a close vote, which ever party takes the U.K. out of the EU risks losing a shed load of Remain voters. I’ll put money on it not happening without a second referendum, which Remain will win 60/40. And the the Tories will save face by saying the people decided.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
The reason why I would have thought would be quite clear - there are millions within the country that work in an area that rely on a good relationship , a free trade and movement relationship with the EU - people saw a future with the EU , they wanted to stay in the EU and the vote was very close - right now there are 3 mil plus votes in some sort of petition - that should show you how much some people want to stay in the EU - so the result was always going to be very divisive



Won ? Lost ? Straight away that carries a air of arrogance when people start pointing towards people being “losers” - and right now no one is winning and the country is losing

And right now there is animosity on all sides



See all you are doing is pointing fingers at people who voted to leave - and yet you ask why there is such a divide ? Maybe stop pointing fingers for a start and tell me how exactly the people who voted to stay are trying to derail the process - after the vote what exactly can they do ? A March - what difference does that make ? A petition ? Again doesn’t really make a difference

Maybe the people who voted to leave should stop blaming people who voted to stay for the way Brexit is going - maybe they should look at themselves for a start and understand that this whole process was always going to be a massive divisive process that was going to be a complete nightmare
Click to expand...

Well, there's the 3 million who have signed the petition
There's a huge march on Parliament today
There's another one planned for next week
Seemingly a majority of MPs are against leaving....

I could probably find more if I wanted to but I really can't be bothered any more
It wouldn't surprise me if A50 gets revoked sometime soon and all the remainers can breathe a huge sigh of satisfaction while the MAJORITY of those who voted ponder on why they bothered and wonder how this will affect future elections/votes when the MINORITY of those that voted doesn't get their way.
The arrogance is with those who's view was not backed by the people and their mindset that if they squeem and squeem until they're sick they'll eventually get their way.
If there's another referendum and Remain wins don't be surprised when millions of people demand another vote...and another....and another....

The real blame lies with the Politicians.
The got elected on the promise to enact the result
They haven't.
Parliament should suspended and every MP banned from standing for office again.
Because they lie. They lie to further their own careers and line their pockets.
If anyone was given a major task at work and ballsed it up as much as this has been they'd be sacked.
They are unfit for public service.
 
The petition has run out of steam.. could not break the 4m mark ..

Would be interesting to see how the March goes.. last week Farage’s leave means Leave did not go anywhere and he did not turn up either. I suspect thousands will turn up today and make it a carnival. The Remain MPs will make some speeches. Maybot will be absent.
On Monday everyone will go back to work and nothing would have changed.
 
Imurg said:
Well, there's the 3 million who have signed the petition
There's a huge march on Parliament today
There's another one planned for next week
Seemingly a majority of MPs are against leaving....

I could probably find more if I wanted to but I really can't be bothered any more
It wouldn't surprise me if A50 gets revoked sometime soon and all the remainers can breathe a huge sigh of satisfaction while the MAJORITY of those who voted ponder on why they bothered and wonder how this will affect future elections/votes when the MINORITY of those that voted doesn't get their way.
The arrogance is with those who's view was not backed by the people and their mindset that if they squeem and squeem until they're sick they'll eventually get their way.
If there's another referendum and Remain wins don't be surprised when millions of people demand another vote...and another....and another....

The real blame lies with the Politicians.
The got elected on the promise to enact the result
They haven't.
Parliament should suspended and every MP banned from standing for office again.
Because they lie. They lie to further their own careers and line their pockets.
If anyone was given a major task at work and ballsed it up as much as this has been they'd be sacked.
They are unfit for public service.
Click to expand...

So you now see why there is a divide which was my original point and what questioned ?

Right now the whole thing is a mess - loads of blame game going on , finger pointing and a complete nightmare for many people - there are lots affected by this whole process and people on both sides are sick of it all - both of your posts spend a lot of time pointing fingers at people who voted to leave - they haven’t made this mess we are in , they didn’t vote for this so why are they getting the blame

And it’s not going to change - if we leave the EU and it’s a complete mess short and medium turn ( people don’t care long term anymore ) then the divide is going to get worse , if we don’t leave then there will be lots of blame on people who voted leave - both scenarios make the divide wider and more bitter
 
Mudball said:
The petition has run out of steam.. could not break the 4m mark ..

Would be interesting to see how the March goes.. last week Farage’s leave means Leave did not go anywhere and he did not turn up either. I suspect thousands will turn up today and make it a carnival. The Remain MPs will make some speeches. Maybot will be absent.
On Monday everyone will go back to work and nothing would have changed.
Click to expand...
He did turn up! He walked the 1st day, unfortunately the idiot walked through were I live!
 
Liverpoolphil said:
So you now see why there is a divide which was my original point and what questioned ?

Right now the whole thing is a mess - loads of blame game going on , finger pointing and a complete nightmare for many people - there are lots affected by this whole process and people on both sides are sick of it all - both of your posts spend a lot of time pointing fingers at people who voted to leave - they haven’t made this mess we are in , they didn’t vote for this so why are they getting the blame

And it’s not going to change - if we leave the EU and it’s a complete mess short and medium turn ( people don’t care long term anymore ) then the divide is going to get worse , if we don’t leave then there will be lots of blame on people who voted leave - both scenarios make the divide wider and more bitter
Click to expand...
Irony meter just exploded
Who's finger pointing now?

These people who signed the petition and those going on the march today - have they accepted the result of the referendum?
I'm not, at this point, interested in why - have they accepted the result?
 
Imurg said:
Irony meter just exploded
Who's finger pointing now?

These people who signed the petition and those going on the march today - have they accepted the result of the referendum?
I'm not, at this point, interested in why - have they accepted the result?
Click to expand...
I don’t think anyone expected the result to be so close either way

Then Farage said if leave lost by a slim margin it would need another vote .. so he only willing to accept if he wins
 
Imurg said:
Irony meter just exploded
Who's finger pointing now?

These people who signed the petition and those going on the march today - have they accepted the result of the referendum?
I'm not, at this point, interested in why - have they accepted the result?
Click to expand...
No.
The information is out there, the plan isn’t nor has preparatory work been done.
Get that sorted and let’s review. Too many people’s futures are at stake... for the whim of 3million majority and 15million who abstained or missed an opportunity to say it. The 17.4million is a miscellaneous figure, you need to deduct those who voted the other way... so it’s too small to force this change through and that is being enacted out in the commons, and we will see in the house of lords.

Not the answer you want hear, I know.
 
pauljames87 said:
I don’t think anyone expected the result to be so close either way

Then Farage said if leave lost by a slim margin it would need another vote .. so he only willing to accept if he wins[/QUOTe
Farage is a hypocrit, his behaviours have given him away... still struggle with why people cannot see he is a dick
Click to expand...
 
harpo_72 said:
No.
The information is out there, the plan isn’t nor has preparatory work been done.
Get that sorted and let’s review. Too many people’s futures are at stake... for the whim of 3million majority and 15million who abstained or missed an opportunity to say it. The 17.4million is a miscellaneous figure, you need to deduct those who voted the other way... so it’s too small to force this change through and that is being enacted out in the commons, and we will see in the house of lords.

Not the answer you want hear, I know.
Click to expand...

Wasn’t even a 3 million majority though was it, 1.5 million or something ?
 
What nobody expected was Leave winning. The vote was supposed to be sop to those who wanted to leave and we were to be told that we had had our opportunity and blown it. No one planned for it so rather than implementing the will of the people, we’ll look for every way to avoid carrying it out.
 
Imurg said:
Irony meter just exploded
Who's finger pointing now?

These people who signed the petition and those going on the march today - have they accepted the result of the referendum?
I'm not, at this point, interested in why - have they accepted the result?
Click to expand...

Well you are blaming people for something that is not their fault

They didn’t vote for this , they didn’t want Brexit and to have this current mess so why are they to blame ?

People having a March and a petition is carrying out their democratic right and at the end of the day that won’t change a decision and it’s not the March or petition that has us where we are right now

I thought this was a good picture

B5542D48-BACE-4E72-B988-008493901A6A.jpeg

So what if people haven’t “accepted” the result - that’s their right being in a democracy or should they be told to just shut up ? People don’t accept votes - and there is nothing wrong with that or asking for another vote - not one single vote is ever the final one
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Well you are blaming people for something that is not their fault

They didn’t vote for this , they didn’t want Brexit and to have this current mess so why are they to blame ?

People having a March and a petition is carrying out their democratic right and at the end of the day that won’t change a decision and it’s not the March or petition that has us where we are right now

I thought this was a good picture

View attachment 26897

So what if people haven’t “accepted” the result - that’s their right being in a democracy or should they be told to just shut up ? People don’t accept votes - and there is nothing wrong with that or asking for another vote - not one single vote is ever the final one
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A great picture; it clearly showed that the majority who bothered to vote wanted to leave, so can we sort it out please.

The number of people not on the electoral roll is of no relevance whatsoever.
 
pauljames87 said:
...
No matter how much hot air you produce doesn’t make you right 👌
Click to expand...
Correct, but it seems that folk can be convinced of anything if enough hot air is produced! And that (producing lots of hot air to convince folk they are correct) is what politicians are, supposedly, experts at!
 
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