Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Foxholer]

Their intrangency on those three priorities were a deliberate ploy to hold up trade talks and stiffle a chance of reaching a suitable agreement for the UK. This was done to push a stinker of a WA along with their main objective of keeping the UK in the EU.

I'd disagree about 'their main objective', though it would certainly have been high on any list of goals!

I'm pretty certain that their Main Priority was/is to create significant 'disincentive' for other members who might consider leaving. And for this reason, I expect the EU to take a very hard line in any future negotiations - even though such an attitude might be to the detriment of member states!

 

[Foxholer]

Ken Clarke needs removing from the Tory Whip along with any others who would vote to bring down their own government. It's their choice.

Er...I think you should probably temper your (Friday evening) alcohol intake!

Exactly what would that achieve? Even if that had any effect on the 'wonderfully independent Tory' Clarke - I'm pretty certain it would more likely have the opposite effect - the main effect would be to go from a Commons majority of 1 to not having a majority at all - technically being in a majority and maybe even being DEPENDENT ON CLARKE to support a majority!! So removing the whip from Clarke woul be more likely to 'bring down their government' than simply tolerating him!

FWIW, I don't believe Clarke actually spoke anything that can really construed as 'rebellious' - though I'm open to persuasion! As far as I've observed, he was simply replying to questions about a hypothetical situation. In fact, by confirming that he would be available, I believe he has probably cooled the media's attention around the matter!

Storm in a teacup/beer glass!

 

[SocketRocket]

Thats a poor way of debating a subject, you can do much better. Due to medication I take I dont drink these days so pull your neck in.

 

[SocketRocket]

Er...I think you should probably temper your (Friday evening) alcohol intake!

Exactly what would that achieve? Even if that had any effect on the 'wonderfully independent Tory' Clarke - I'm pretty certain it would more likely have the opposite effect - the main effect would be to go from a Commons majority of 1 to not having a majority at all - technically being in a majority and maybe even being DEPENDENT ON CLARKE to support a majority!! So removing the whip from Clarke woul be more likely to 'bring down their government' than simply tolerating him!

FWIW, I don't believe Clarke actually spoke anything that can really construed as 'rebellious' - though I'm open to persuasion! As far as I've observed, he was simply replying to questions about a hypothetical situation. In fact, by confirming that he would be available, I believe he has probably cooled the media's attention around the matter!

Storm in a teacup/beer glass!

My point was that if they are going to vote down their own government they are dead parrots in the party anyway so best turf them out and work and getting them deselected from their onstituency parties.

 

[pendodave]

My point was that if they are going to vote down their own government they are dead parrots in the party anyway so best turf them out and work and getting them deselected from their onstituency parties.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not sure that the odd independent thinker on the backbenches is the worst thing that can happen to either of the main parties. Groupthink tends to end very badly in almost every situation. I admire your intolerance though, most impressive.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Pinched from Fosh

Scotland.…. 6 weeks ago...…….Jo Swinson is dreadful.
England....she seems quite nice.

Scotland ...3 weeks ago..... Jo Swinson is dreadful.
England....she's not that bad.

Scotland now ……..Jo Swinson is dreadful.
England now...... isn't Jo Swinson dreadful.

 

[SocketRocket]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not sure that the odd independent thinker on the backbenches is the worst thing that can happen to either of the main parties. Groupthink tends to end very badly in almost every situation. I admire your intolerance though, most impressive.

I just dont see how someone can have alegance to a political party in parliament and be prepared to vote 'no confidence' in that party. If this is there stance then the honorable thing to do is leave the government benches first. If that view is intolerant then I accept your accolade.

 

[clubchamp98]

I wonder if the old Corbyn - a proud socialist,democrat & Brexiteer - would ever have imagined that he would one day collaborate with political enemies in an effort to be installed as head of an unelected gov't whose purpose was to block a democratic vote taking us out of the EU.

I thought it was only to stop a no deal exit not stop Brexit altogether.?

 

[MegaSteve]

I just dont see how someone can have alegance to a political party in parliament and be prepared to vote 'no confidence' in that party. If this is there stance then the honorable thing to do is leave the government benches first. If that view is intolerant then I accept your accolade.

Because politicians quite like it being one rule for themselves with one rule for the others...

A bit like Boris getting to be PM without a GE having previously kicked off when same happened with Brown...

 

[Parsaregood]

So The Commons voted for No Deal? Course they did. That's why there's been 2 extensions to Art 50 and endless debate and multiple votes on solutions to get away from No Deal over the past year. Only MPs looking for No Deal are some of the ERG nutbars like dim fatty Francois, they are not numerous fortunately.

If No Deal is a very realistic probability from triggering article 50, why on earth did MP's who are so against it vote for it ? It seems a ridiculous thing to do, you cannot extend article 50 indefinitely.

 

[ColchesterFC]

you cannot extend article 50 indefinitely.

You can certainly try. Especially if you are an MP who rather than trying to prevent a No Deal Brexi, as many claim, is actually trying to prevent Brexit. Keep delaying in the hope that there will be a 2nd referendum and the public will be so cheesed off with the whole thing they'll vote to remain or that Parliament decides to revoke Article 50.

 

[SocketRocket]

If No Deal is a very realistic probability from triggering article 50, why on earth did MP's who are so against it vote for it ? It seems a ridiculous thing to do, you cannot extend article 50 indefinitely.

That's correct but I think many are more interested in us remaining and ignoring the referendum and they have invented a plethora of reasons to support their view

 

[Parsaregood]

That's correct but I think many are more interested in us remaining and ignoring the referendum and they have invented a plethora of reasons to support their view

Of course they have but the reasons and arguments they provide become more ridiculous by the week. The vote was to leave the EU, in a democracy you respect the vote. If a deal cant be realistically worked out in the timeframe allowed you leave, if you cant work out a deal in 2 years the likelihood is a deal wont be worked out. The whole deal from May and co was a subliminal attempt at remaining with some wallpaper over it. Absolute joke, its actually Theresa May who has almost forced no Deal upon us with her terrible negotiations and foolish attempts to get this deal through parliament. Boris is alot more genuine the May ever was, she never intended to even try to do what she said she would do.

 

[Hobbit]

Of course they have but the reasons and arguments they provide become more ridiculous by the week. The vote was to leave the EU, in a democracy you respect the vote. If a deal cant be realistically worked out in the timeframe allowed you leave, if you cant work out a deal in 2 years the likelihood is a deal wont be worked out. The whole deal from May and co was a subliminal attempt at remaining with some wallpaper over it. Absolute joke, its actually Theresa May who has almost forced no Deal upon us with her terrible negotiations and foolish attempts to get this deal through parliament. Boris is alot more genuine the May ever was, she never intended to even try to do what she said she would do.

With a couple of hours to spare yesterday I had a good look at the Canada free trade deal(CETA), which includes services as well as goods. Its a very good deal, AND it is the deal that Tusk and Barnier also offered to the UK in the early days.

When you compare May's deal with the Canada deal, what on earth was she and Ollie Robbins doing in creating/promoting the abortion that is May's deal? I just can't believe the offer of a Canada version wasn't taken up. And if you have a read of David Davies' comments since resigning from the position of Brexit Secretary in which he also wanted a version of the Canada deal, tailored to the UK... I guess that's what you get when you get a Remainer PM who wanted a Brino.

 

[Foxholer]

You can certainly try. Especially if you are an MP who rather than trying to prevent a No Deal Brexi, as many claim, is actually trying to prevent Brexit. Keep delaying in the hope that there will be a 2nd referendum and the public will be so cheesed off with the whole thing they'll vote to remain or that Parliament decides to revoke Article 50.

That could well be the case for some, while others realise the potential disaster that No Deal could be.

Here's a recent article that points out some 'worst case' possibilities https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49385263

 

[robinthehood]

I

That could well be the case for some, while others realise the potential disaster that No Deal could be.

Here's a recent article that points out some 'worst case' possibilities https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49385263

I read the times article this morning and it makes for quite bleak reading.

A senior Whitehall source said: “This is not Project Fear — this is the most realistic assessment of what the public face with no deal. These are likely, basic, reasonable scenarios — not the worst case.”

 

[SocketRocket]

That could well be the case for some, while others realise the potential disaster that No Deal could be.

Here's a recent article that points out some 'worst case' possibilities https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49385263

I do find these predictions confusing at times. Shortage of drinking water, really!

Why would the UK create problems with goods being IMPORTED through UK ports, surely the problems if any would be in the EU if freight gets held up in France, Calais authorities state they will not have hold ups their side though.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Yellowhammer docs 'leaked'.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/ukne...of-border-chaos-and-food-shortages/ar-AAFYeSV

Start buying now, especially toilet rolls and tinned /dry goods.
Avoid travel on those days.
Prepare for long electricity shut offs [how is that going to pan out with freezer stocking ] plus petrol and other fuel shortages.
Fill your heating oil tank, scavenge wood for use with your patio fire to keep warm.

Your Brexit street warden will be appointed shortly to keep you all informed during this worrying time.


I might be lying about the last line. [well our Prime Ministers can get away with it without half the country realising so I'm just following his lead]

 

[robinthehood]

I do find these predictions confusing at times. Shortage of drinking water, really!

Why would the UK create problems with goods being IMPORTED through UK ports, surely the problems if any would be in the EU if freight gets held up in France, Calais authorities state they will not have hold ups their side though.

You really havnt thought this whole no deal thing through have you.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

You really havnt thought this whole no deal thing through have you.

Hang on, don't blame me, blame the Tory Unionist supporting Sunday Times and the UK Government.
Have they got the leaked government paper wrong ?