Breaking the class ceiling

[Pants]

Simply not possible. If you assume that you draw 4% annually, you will need a 1.75m pot. With the constant raid on pensions and lack of will to raise it in line with Inflation..: you are unlikely to have such a pot (unlike you are in the top 2% of the population)

With the recent rise in annuity rates, it is just about possible to get £70K pa (but not necessarily recommended) if you have a pension pot at the maximum lifetime allowance.

 

[Voyager EMH]

With the recent rise in annuity rates, it is just about possible to get £70K pa (but not necessarily recommended) if you have a pension pot at the maximum lifetime allowance.

Exactly.
For me, middle class is about enduring capital that can provide an income, not size of wage or pension.
The wage or pension is merely spending money and performs the same function in the economy no matter what the size of it is.
Ownership of significant enduring capital puts you in a different category of the economy.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Exactly.
For me, middle class is about enduring capital that can provide an income, not size of wage or pension.
The wage or pension is merely spending money and performs the same function in the economy no matter what the size of it is.
Ownership of significant enduring capital puts you in a different category of the economy.

If I add the value of our house to the planned ‘steady state’ of my pension fund my parents would still today have boggled that one of their sons could have such ‘wealth‘ relative to what they had. Indeed I think they would have done their own version of a ‘high five’ and said to each other…”well done us…our hard work, struggles and dedication to helping him do well in life has paid off”.

My dad was the son of a Hebridean crofter; my mum the daughter of a Perthshire gamekeeper - both financially very poor backgrounds, but backgrounds rich in social and spiritual values and dedication to improvement. When I was 14 dad was a cabinetmaker; mum was a head school cook..soon to become an area manager. My brother is just as I. My sister (God bless her) took a different path in life.

The path my parents trod and then pointed us along was simply the path to improving your lot. I don’t think they considered things in terms of class, though with both their sets of parents working for or depending upon the Dukes of Argyll and Atholl they knew what it was and what it meant.

And for my folks their affirmation would be when they look at my life and see that I don’t need or want for any of the essentials and have more than sufficient left over to help our children build a similar life. I am very proud of my roots and the road my family has travelled.

 

[Orikoru]

I've never understood what it means to be honest. I go to work so does that mean I'm working class? Surely not since most people have a job. I have an office job and do fine, maybe I'm middle class, but tradesmen such as plumbers and electricians probably make more money than I do and they'd be potentially classed as working class wouldn't they? I really have no idea. There are still classes in the UK but I'm sure these ones don't have the same meanings they used to. When you hear 'middle class' nowadays it's normally just someone taking the mick out of you for shopping in Waitrose instead of Asda or something.

 

[Voyager EMH]

I've never understood what it means to be honest. I go to work so does that mean I'm working class? Surely not since most people have a job. I have an office job and do fine, maybe I'm middle class, but tradesmen such as plumbers and electricians probably make more money than I do and they'd be potentially classed as working class wouldn't they? I really have no idea. There are still classes in the UK but I'm sure these ones don't have the same meanings they used to. When you hear 'middle class' nowadays it's normally just someone taking the mick out of you for shopping in Waitrose instead of Asda or something.

I have greater than 95% certainty that it does, yes.

 

[PJ87]

No, if you worked and income from that work contributed, indeed was necessarily used to procure that pension, then you come within Voyagers definition of working class,imo

What about AVCs as they arent needed and are voluntary.. so your wages you invest in them to provide for yourself in the future

Altho my avcs won't be enough to live off they will be able to take as a tax free sum leaving my pension untouched to have a higher income

 

[SocketRocket]

The classes exist but the lines have become blurred and indistinct.

There is a small ruling/upper class.

Next there's a professional class, followed by a skilled class. Working class is now probably unskilled/low skilled and then there's an underclass.

As I suggested the lines have become indistinct and subjective as people tend to classify themselves and others by personal prejudices.
Probably needs binning.

 

[theoneandonly]

I have greater than 95% certainty that it does, yes.

Really ? Where from .

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Closest i'll ever get to being middle/upper class is a cheeseboard and redwine.

 

[IanM]

I always thought I was working class, then I went to Swindon!

 

[Voyager EMH]

Really ? Where from .

In me 'ed.

 

[Voyager EMH]

The classes exist but the lines have become blurred and indistinct.

There is a small ruling/upper class.

Next there's a professional class, followed by a skilled class. Working class is now probably unskilled/low skilled and then there's an underclass.

As I suggested the lines have become indistinct and subjective as people tend to classify themselves and others by personal prejudices.
Probably needs binning.

I will agree that this is a very common perception today, but it is not my view.

The need to work means that you are working class. That is your role in the economy and society.
I do not believe that job description or size of wage confers any difference in class.

Nobility, aristocracy and royalty are upper class. Many of these are not part of any ruling role, though some are.

To be above working class you need to be in the ownership role in the economy and society.
You need to have significant capital in property and shares that can provide a significant income.
This puts you in the middle class. Many in this class choose to work as well.

I do not believe that job description or size of wage necessarily confers any difference in class. If you need to work then you are working class.

These distinctions have not changed very much for a very long time.
What has changed is that many people do not wish to view themselves as working class. That does not change the fact that they are working class.

There is no such thing as professional class, skilled class or underclass.

"Underclass" is a slur. Similar to the use of the word "toffs".

 

[sunshine]

If you have to pay the mortgage on a £4m house, the lease costs on a Bentley, the private flights to Mauritius etc then you may be financially dependent on working, probably in banking , but I doubt you could be in the working class bracket. That is too literal a translation.

If you have to pay a mortgage you are working class, or middle class at best.

If you’re upper class your ancestors have handed down land and property through generations.

I don’t believe money defines class. Is David Beckham now upper class because he is very wealthy? Was posh spice ever posh?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

If you have to pay a mortgage you are working class, or middle class at best.

If you’re upper class your ancestors have handed down land and property through generations.

I don’t believe money defines class. Is David Beckham now upper class because he is very wealthy? Was posh spice ever posh?

People's definitions are clearly very different, that's fine. The idea that having a mortgage makes you working class just doesn't add up to me, it just catches way too many people.

I also think that the qualifications become blurred. David Beckham may have come from a working class background, I don't know, but with his wealth and lifestyle now totally take him out of that category. Where he fits ??‍, but the boy isn't struggling now, he has no need to work for starters ?.

Anyway, as previously mentioned, I think these definitions are now outdated and irrelevant. Who uses these phrases? I think if I asked my kids about the class system they would look blankly at me.

 

[PJ87]

People's definitions are clearly very different, that's fine. The idea that having a mortgage makes you working class just doesn't add up to me, it just catches way too many people.

I also think that the qualifications become blurred. David Beckham may have come from a working class background, I don't know, but with his wealth and lifestyle now totally take him out of that category. Where he fits ??‍, but the boy isn't struggling now, he has no need to work for starters ?.

Anyway, as previously mentioned, I think these definitions are now outdated and irrelevant. Who uses these phrases? I think if I asked my kids about the class system they would look blankly at me.

The mortgage thing doesn't always work tho

Say someone is mortgage free and then get a mortgage to get a second house to rent out which entirely covers the mortgage

Becomes working class as you have a mortgage but someone else is paying it lol

 

[Fade and Die]

People's definitions are clearly very different, that's fine. The idea that having a mortgage makes you working class just doesn't add up to me, it just catches way too many people.

I also think that the qualifications become blurred. David Beckham may have come from a working class background, I don't know, but with his wealth and lifestyle now totally take him out of that category. Where he fits ??‍, but the boy isn't struggling now, he has no need to work for starters ?.

Anyway, as previously mentioned, I think these definitions are now outdated and irrelevant. Who uses these phrases? I think if I asked my kids about the class system they would look blankly at me.

Beckham was from a working class family, made a load of money and married a spice girl (who were all very working class). Don’t think he will ever consider himself to be anything but working class, they are the epitome of Nouveau riche. But what about his children? They have been raised in a life of luxury and entitlement where their family fortunes and name have opened doors for them, they are definitely not WC.

 

[Voyager EMH]

People's definitions are clearly very different, that's fine. The idea that having a mortgage makes you working class just doesn't add up to me, it just catches way too many people.

I also think that the qualifications become blurred. David Beckham may have come from a working class background, I don't know, but with his wealth and lifestyle now totally take him out of that category. Where he fits ??‍, but the boy isn't struggling now, he has no need to work for starters ?.

Anyway, as previously mentioned, I think these definitions are now outdated and irrelevant. Who uses these phrases? I think if I asked my kids about the class system they would look blankly at me.

I understand the definitions of upper, middle and working class.
To me they are not outdated definitions, because little has changed in the last 150 years and the definitions are just as relevant today as they have always been.
This is not a very difficult subject to read about and gain an understanding.
Perhaps your kids need to read a few books.

 

[Fade and Die]

I understand the definitions of upper, middle and working class.
To me they are not outdated definitions, because little has changed in the last 150 years and the definitions are just as relevant today as they have always been.
This is not a very difficult subject to read about and gain an understanding.
Perhaps your kids need to read a few books.

Some people hate the rich,
Blame them for everything,dont they?

But theres nothing from stopping anyone bettering themselves but their own limitations.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I understand the definitions of upper, middle and working class.
To me they are not outdated definitions, because little has changed in the last 150 years and the definitions are just as relevant today as they have always been.
This is not a very difficult subject to read about and gain an understanding.
Perhaps your kids need to read a few books.

No, they are doing okay. They just don't see the world based on those parameters. They don't view people that way, don't have those hang ups.

You may believe class divisions are still a major issue. I don't, they certainly don't.

 

[IanM]

This just demonstrates that there are lots of labels in common usage, that have different meaning attached, by different people.



None of which is worth losing any sleep over!