Breaking the class ceiling

[BrianM]

Where do you get many working class are desperate to call themselves middle class?
I’ve never had a conversation about what class ‘I’ am or my family/pals, where are you getting your information from, genuinely just interested ?

 

[Voyager EMH]

Where do you get many working class are desperate to call themselves middle class?
I’ve never had a conversation about what class ‘I’ am or my family/pals, where are you getting your information from, genuinely just interested ?

From talking to thousands of people in the last 40 years or so.

And I did not say many people were desperate to call themselves middle class. I said many people were desperate to call themselves something other than working class.
I've heard, "skilled class", "professional class" and many others. "Job snobbery" in my view. But some working class people do attempt to describe themselves as middle class.

Take a look at this recent poll. 45% (EDIT: correction 55%) see themselves as something above working class. Utter nonsense!

 

[Mudball]

Your view seems more akin to the Indian caste system. Where if you are born in one class you are that forever and there is nothing you can do to change it.

I'm not from round these parts so all this seems really pointless to me but I give you an observation. It's interesting to me that many British people are desperate to describe themselves as working class, but America's are more about the "American dream" and more desperate to be rich!

I think we may be mixing a few things here.. absolutely right about the caste system in India. For those who follow it, if you are born in one, you can’t change it. Though I believe that applicability of the caste system is modern life is not that strong. It comes into play during marriages and other rituals but not seen as a factor when into jobs. The IT industry is a great example of that.

However we are mixing social mobility with caste here. While India may not have done a good job with caste-ism, it has done a terrific job with social mobility. With over 400 million people lifted out of poverty over the last 20 years. In big cities like Mumbai, you can have the ‘american dream’

Social mobility in the U.K. is still a challenge. One of the main drivers of social mobility in India is the availability of opportunities which in turn is driven by the rate of growth. U.K. did well when it was a strong and growing economy. If we can get growth back, it will open opportunities for the young ones to escape inner city ghettos or middle England classism

(flame suit back on)

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I think that the ‘class‘ as we consider it today had its roots more in the amount of time that those in a family had available to do whatever they liked - and that came from the financial background of the family. The financial wherewithal through income to spend on acquiring stuff and doing things in that ’free’ time determined the sustainability of any level of ‘free’ time.

 

[BrianM]

It's all garbage in my opinion.
Labelling people by class, In my 41 years I've never labelled anyone by class or discussed labelling people by class.
It says more about the people labelling them than anything else.

 

[Voyager EMH]

It's all garbage in my opinion.
Labelling people by class, In my 41 years I've never labelled anyone by class or discussed labelling people by class.
It says more about the people labelling them than anything else.

Please tell me the "more" you can say about me from my perception of class system.
Upper class - Royalty, nobility, aristocracy.
Middle class - not financially dependent on income from working.
Working class - financially dependent on income from work.

I would like to think that my view is one that is free from the "labelling" that you refer to.
My view is factually based on the roles that are playing out in the economy and society. These roles are distinctly different.

 

[BrianM]

Please tell me the "more" you can say about me from my perception of class system.
Upper class - Royalty, nobility, aristocracy.
Middle class - not financially dependent on income from working.
Working class - financially dependent on income from work.

I would like to think that my view is one that is free from the "labelling" that you refer to.
My view is factually based on the roles that are playing out in the economy and society. These roles are distinctly different.

Why do you feel you have to label people by class?

 

[Voyager EMH]

Why do you feel you have to label people by class?

Why not?
They are three distinct roles and so I require three names to give them.
Some people use a load of letters and numbers eg things like C3, D2 etc.
But why? Really doesn't need an answer.

 

[Mudball]

Why not?
They are three distinct roles and so I require three names to give them.
Some people use a load of letters and numbers eg things like C3, D2 etc.
But why? Really doesn't need an answer.

While you are mixing things, You raise an interesting point. Consumer demographics uses a simple grading system which helps target advertisers and marketing dollars. There is a weird logic to it mapping to ‘class system’ on this page
https://www.abc1demographic.co.uk/

 

[Voyager EMH]

While you are mixing things, You raise an interesting point. Consumer demographics uses a simple grading system which helps target advertisers and marketing dollars. There is a weird logic to it mapping to ‘class system’ on this page
https://www.abc1demographic.co.uk/

"Social Status" at the top of the column is the "nonsense" that I have been bleating on about. A perceived level of "poshness" is not to be given any credence, in my view.
Earning money from work and then spending (and some saving) it in the economy is the same role no matter what the job description is or the size of wage. All are working class if they are financially dependent on money from work.

 

[sunshine]

While you are mixing things, You raise an interesting point. Consumer demographics uses a simple grading system which helps target advertisers and marketing dollars. There is a weird logic to it mapping to ‘class system’ on this page
https://www.abc1demographic.co.uk/

Agree here, the consumer demographics has nothing to do with class and more to do with earning power.

A person from a privileged background may enter the workplace as junior managerial C1 and through promotion rise to B and then A. This person hasn’t changed their class.

 

[sunshine]

From talking to thousands of people in the last 40 years or so.

And I did not say many people were desperate to call themselves middle class. I said many people were desperate to call themselves something other than working class.
I've heard, "skilled class", "professional class" and many others. "Job snobbery" in my view. But some working class people do attempt to describe themselves as middle class.

Take a look at this recent poll. 45% see themselves as something above working class. Utter nonsense.

View attachment 45788

But was this poll of customers at Waitrose?

(By the way, the categories add up to 55% above working class)

 

[Voyager EMH]

But was this poll of customers at Waitrose?

(By the way, the categories add up to 55% above working class)

Yep, an even bigger load of tosh than I previously thought.
Doubt if it was Waitrose customers - then it would have been 85% - so more likely Tesco.

 

[Mudball]

Not really British .. but here is a view..

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1286819768834420?fs=e&s=TIeQ9V

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I think we may be mixing a few things here.. absolutely right about the caste system in India. For those who follow it, if you are born in one, you can’t change it. Though I believe that applicability of the caste system is modern life is not that strong. It comes into play during marriages and other rituals but not seen as a factor when into jobs. The IT industry is a great example of that.
(flame suit back on)

Having dealt with many monied Indian households where staff are plentiful, I can assure you the caste system is definately in operation to a point where I have put certain "staff" members in their place for treating me as a servant/scivvie.

 

[Mudball]

Having dealt with many monied Indian households where staff are plentiful, I can assure you the caste system is definately in operation to a point where I have put certain "staff" members in their place for treating me as a servant/scivvie.

Very likely..

 

[BubbaP]

?

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news...own-your-comfortable-lifestyle-20220715223340