Boris the PM - a new beginning

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drdel said:
I think my problem lies in the fact you said Brexit is a subject you wished to put in the past yet you continue to (IMO rant) on that very same topic.

IMO you undermine your good points by using pseudo religious phraseology " From the Brexit seed that we have sown so shall we reap - or from the wind we have sown we shall reap the whirlwind. ". It infers that those who disagree are less moral/religious less righteous than yourself.
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You recognise these as biblical?...well if you choose to make these connections then fine - but I suspect that you yourself have used one or both of these phrases yourself - certainly they are in my day-to-day vocabulary and have been for as long as I can recall - I don't have to go looking for them.

Besides - we use many biblical quotes in everyday life so why have a go at me for using a couple. And I'll note that whilst I might guess that 'reaping what we sow' might well be - I didn't actually know that 'reaping the whirlwind' was. However as you seem to know your bible better than I know mine I'll have to go and find them :)

And your last sentence made me laugh in it's absurdity...

I'll add this quick list fro a very quick google search
  • AT THE ELEVENTH HOUR...
  • AT YOUR WIT'S END. ...
  • THE BLIND LEADING THE BLIND. ...
  • BY THE SKIN OF YOUR TEETH. ...
  • TO CAST PEARLS BEFORE SWINE. ...
  • EAT, DRINK AND BE MERRY. ...
  • TO FALL BY THE WAYSIDE. ...
  • FEET OF CLAY.
 
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Hobbit said:
First of all, thank you for answering. Secondly, really?

I expect there to be a quid pro quo over fishing access for a number of reasons. Its a common sense trade off. Ring fencing all the stock for a UK fleet that no longer exists is just dumb, and its a great opportunity for some middle ground.

But the ECJ isn't independent, and you're willing to accept them as arbitrator? Really?

You're willing to accept the EU as the overarching body on subsidies, AND compromise the UK's trading position with the rest of the world? Really? Where's the intelligence in that?

Similarly, to above with quotas, you're willing to give up the UK's attractive position in negotiations with the rest of the world? Really?

Standards; this is a far more complex issue. Every manufacture that wants to export into the EU will have to manufacture to the EU's standards anyway. So why is the EU asking for this? It gives the EU control over the UK govt on standards. What about environmental standards? Unlike the UK, southern Europe pays lip service to meeting environmental standards. When Spain get it wrong they get a wrist slap. When France get it wrong, and fine - Spain doesn't, they ignore it. When Italy get it wrong, they get a fine, which like France they ignore and just carry on. Greece, until recently, did as they were told on standards but now they've met all the financial recovery rules set by Germany they are back to doing what they want. AND FINALLY, when the UK got it wrong they played a straight bat and paid the fine. The EU will fine the UK for every single thing - maybe you aren't aware but the EU has several cases going on against the UK for lots of trivia, and its all to do with raising money for the EU - its that transparent.

The geography issue is an absolute farce. I can't believe you've fallen for it, unless of course you want to. If I agree a delivery date with you of next week, what has geography got to do with it? And if its rolling deliveries, say 3 times a week, what has distance got to do with it. Canada can agree the same delivery schedules. You are a project manager, you know all the in's and out's of on time deliveries, even from Japan. Geography doesn't play a part, and you know that.

Once again, thanks for answering. Now, if you can, step back from your answers and view them objectively against a why would someone ask for that and why would it pass the test of 'natural justice' in an an equitable trade agreement? I don't think you are capable of viewing it objectively for two simple reasons. One, even subconsciously you can't accept the Tories/Boris achieving a good deal, but you could if it was Labour. And two, the harping back to past lies from the Brexit campaign clearly shows you haven't accepted the result. The Theresa May's abject capitulation on the agreement is, apparently, what you want. It would make the UK a slave state, worse than Norway.
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Look - to be honest I frankly no longer care about the pros and cons of leaving the EU. We have left, my side of the argument lost. It's over. And this government is now trying to get in place an arrangement that delivers at least some of their promises whilst adhering to what we signed up to in the political declaration part of the Withdrawal Agreement. And the more they can deliver the better.

But where a promise was made and is not to be delivered; that was at the time challenged as being unachievable or very high risk, but dismissed as Project Fear - then I might choose to point out that fact - but purely as being indicative of the duplicity and dissembling that characterises much of what Johnson said and continues to say and do. As he is unfortunately still our PM.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
You recognise these as biblical?...well if you choose to make these connections then fine - but I suspect that you yourself have used one or both of these phrases yourself - certainly they are in my day-to-day vocabulary and have been for as long as I can recall - I don't have to go looking for them.

Besides - we use many biblical quotes in everyday life so why have a go at me for using a couple. And I'll note that whilst I might guess that 'reaping what we sow' might well be - I didn't actually know that 'reaping the whirlwind' was. However as you seem to know your bible better than I know mine I'll have to go and find them:)
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Really. I just gave gave a personal view and, to be accurate, I said your phraseology were pseudo religious: I did not say you had quoted the bible. Bible / religious statements are not part of my normal phrases.

Moving on.
Following from Hobbits post I'd suggest you might want to take a squint at the state of the EU. Harmony is not looking good, their budget discussions is a can kicked down the road, debt is massive and out of control, Federalism is moving up the agenda and the 'Frugal 4' are going to be stung hard despite their democratic Government's strong objections. I could add a lots more to that list. Even the pro-EU; post Lagarde IMF are critical of the shaky nature of the blocs economics.

Do you really still think the UK would be other than a cash cow to Brussels?
 
drdel said:
Really. I just gave gave a personal view and, to be accurate, I said your phraseology were pseudo religious: I did not say you had quoted the bible. Bible / religious statements are not part of my normal phrases.

Moving on.
Following from Hobbits post I'd suggest you might want to take a squint at the state of the EU. Harmony is not looking good, their budget discussions is a can kicked down the road, debt is massive and out of control, Federalism is moving up the agenda and the 'Frugal 4' are going to be stung hard despite their democratic Government's strong objections. I could add a lots more to that list. Even the pro-EU; post Lagarde IMF are critical of the shaky nature of the blocs economics.

Do you really still think the UK would be other than a cash cow to Brussels?
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It’s a debate that’s over. We’ve left - you need to get over it.
 
Lots of anti Russian 'Chaff' flying out from the Westminster blue team headquarters since Grayling got stitched up.
Makes you wonder what will be in the report when it is finally published.

China no more, Russia no more.........just Trump left now.
Cheap imported Cornish pasties and Scotch incoming.
 
Looks like food and medicine shortages will be much worse than what we experienced with Covid.
The Government's cunning Cumming plan seems to be falling apart.
I would start stocking up on essentials as soon as possible.
This Government likes it's WW2 comparisons perhaps it will be re-introducing ration books.;)
 
Doon frae Troon said:
Looks like food and medicine shortages will be much worse than what we experienced with Covid.
The Government's cunning Cumming plan seems to be falling apart.
I would start stocking up on essentials as soon as possible.
This Government likes it's WW2 comparisons perhaps it will be re-introducing ration books.;)
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I feared this once Brexit was announced

I have built up 6 months supply of My medication

Food we can work around
 
pauljames87 said:
I feared this once Brexit was announced

I have built up 6 months supply of My medication

Food we can work around
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So let me get this right. The UK would have shortages of things like food and medication produced in the EU due to the UK stopping it coming into the country. I mean if it was going out the country we would already have it so can someone please explain to me why we would want to stop it and why would EU food producers want their fresh products rotting in the fields. Or is Doon trolling again!
 
SocketRocket said:
So let me get this right. The UK would have shortages of things like food and medication produced in the EU due to the UK stopping it coming into the country. I mean if it was going out the country we would already have it so can someone please explain to me why we would want to stop it and why would EU food producers want their fresh products rotting in the fields. Or is Doon trolling again!
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Just one slight delay in the supply chain causes a backlog

Proven by the covid bog roll shortages .
 
pauljames87 said:
Just one slight delay in the supply chain causes a backlog

Proven by the covid bog roll shortages .
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The problem with toilet rolls was with the panic buying, not the supply chain. There were plenty in the country but if people start buying in that fashion then little can manage. The lesson to be learned from that is either the govt or supermarkets have to restrict sales of certain items at the first sign of public hysteria.
 
Lord Tyrion said:
The problem with toilet rolls was with the panic buying, not the supply chain. There were plenty in the country but if people start buying in that fashion then little can manage. The lesson to be learned from that is either the govt or supermarkets have to restrict sales of certain items at the first sign of public hysteria.
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Indeed, PPE would have been a better example!
Bog Roll issue was caused by excessive demand at 'final destination'. PPE issue was caused by manufacturers inability to produce enough at one end of chain and insufficient stockpile at t'other. Any 'Brexit-related' supply chain issues are likely to be between Port of Calais and the M20!
 
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SocketRocket said:
So let me get this right. The UK would have shortages of things like food and medication produced in the EU due to the UK stopping it coming into the country. I mean if it was going out the country we would already have it so can someone please explain to me why we would want to stop it and why would EU food producers want their fresh products rotting in the fields. Or is Doon trolling again!
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Modern pharmaceuticals have a number of steps, from making the basic pill, to packaging it in blister packs and the like, adding the prescribing information. Different parts of this process are performed in different EU countries, including the UK. and to a greater extent, Ireland, but while the UK was in the EU was no problem. Now some steps will have delays between them, and companies will probably chose to shift those steps out of the UK entirely. Also some medicines are made 'fresh' and manufactured and shipped on a 'just in time' basis. These include modern biologics, gene therapies and some of the new immunological treatments for cancer. This too is now problematic if there is a queue at Calais.

Setting aside the broader Brexit issues, the UK should have worked to find a way to stay within the European Medicines Agency. That would have made the conduct of clinical trials in the NHS more attractive to pharma companies, made medicine approval smoother, cheaper and more efficient, and allowed UK involvement in European level research and development. But they never bothered, so NHS patients will lose out on earlier access to products, NHS hospitals will lose out on the fees and grants for conducting trials, and after the medicine is approved in the EU, some companies will not apply to the UK for their medicine at all or will delay it until successful launch elsewhere.
 
Ethan said:
Modern pharmaceuticals have a number of steps, from making the basic pill, to packaging it in blister packs and the like, adding the prescribing information. Different parts of this process are performed in different EU countries, including the UK. and to a greater extent, Ireland, but while the UK was in the EU was no problem. Now some steps will have delays between them, and companies will probably chose to shift those steps out of the UK entirely. Also some medicines are made 'fresh' and manufactured and shipped on a 'just in time' basis. These include modern biologics, gene therapies and some of the new immunological treatments for cancer. This too is now problematic if there is a queue at Calais.

Setting aside the broader Brexit issues, the UK should have worked to find a way to stay within the European Medicines Agency. That would have made the conduct of clinical trials in the NHS more attractive to pharma companies, made medicine approval smoother, cheaper and more efficient, and allowed UK involvement in European level research and development. But they never bothered, so NHS patients will lose out on earlier access to products, NHS hospitals will lose out on the fees and grants for conducting trials, and after the medicine is approved in the EU, some companies will not apply to the UK for their medicine at all or will delay it until successful launch elsewhere.
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Very interesting but getting back to my previous point. Would the UK prevent food and drugs entering the UK thus creating shortages, the previous poster suggested he was building up a reserve stock. Dont we produce drugs that the EU rely on? I doubt very much we will get food or drug shortages coming into the UK.
 
SocketRocket said:
Bog rolls are produced in the UK and it isnt anything to do with import restrictions but panick buying. Theres no shortage now.
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However it showed how one small problem caused an issue in the chain..

Do you not think cutting ties with our biggest trading partners might not cause a slight issue?
 
pauljames87 said:
However it showed how one small problem caused an issue in the chain..

Do you not think cutting ties with our biggest trading partners might not cause a slight issue?
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Yes, it showed how stupid panick buying is unnecessary and dumb.

Cutting ties? Why do you say that, we are not stopping trade with the EU, just changing our trading rules. There may well still be a free trade agreement but whether there is or not we will still be trading. EU food growers wont have their products rotting in the fields or warehouses, EU cars wont stop coming into the UK. That talk is just an ongoing project fear and probably a bigger problem for the EU as we have a big trade deficit with them.
 
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