Boris the PM - a new beginning

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'd point out that your posts rather contradict that.

My posts will point out where I see lies, deceits or dissembling in respect of anything. And as Johnson is PM, what he says and does matters.

On Brexit - the government has either sown the seeds, and we will reap the harvest - or it has sown the wind, and we will reap the whirlwind. He and they will be judged by the electorate in time accordingly. Arguing the Pros and Cons of leaving are for me now irrelevant. The reality of what happens is what matters.

Besides I have problems close to home to worry about - problems directly impacted by what Johnson and the government says and does, and how the public, business and industry reacts in response.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I am not answering the questions because I am tired of the brexit machinations, my point is about Johnson - not brexit. Brexit is done. Johnson and his crew can get on with it.

Your refusal to answer what seem perfectly sensible and civil questions based on your own points on here surely makes you as bad as those you seeks to attack at every turn

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Your refusal to answer what seem perfectly sensible and civil questions based on your own points on here surely makes you as bad as those you seeks to attack at every turn

The thread is about Johnson and not the Pros and Cons of Brexit. Brexit is done. No point in debating the Pros and Cons.

I simply look at what Johnson promised and claimed for Brexit and what it appears is likely to happen. And when what was promised or claimed back then and since then was challenged and these challenges were thrown into the Project Fear bucket, then that can be pointed out.

I no longer have any interest in debating the Pros and Cons of Brexit - after all - I have been told for four years to get over it. I have.

But that does not make use of events from the past irrelevant - as we should learn from what we have been told would happen and what has actually happened (see also government management of the pandemic response) as pointers to caution and advise us on what we are being told today and what is the best way ahead.

I repeat. Brexit is Done. Over. From the Brexit seed that we have sown so shall we reap - or from the wind we have sown we shall reap the whirlwind. It is (way) too early to tell which - but perhaps we can start to sense. Meanwhile we can simply watch and listen and when the time comes we can judge Johnson and his government accordingly.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Chris Grayling? Intelligence committee? Come on, even those of you that voted for this shower must now realise they are deliberately trolling the nation and finding out just how far they can push it.

 

[User62651]

Dominic Grieve (Chair of the ISC 2017-2019) tells us on Newsnight last night that it is the members of the ISC who elect the chair of the ISC - as they have done in electing Julian Lewis.

Matt Hancock tells us on Peston last night that the government appoints the chair of the ISC

The ISC website is clear I think (my bold)

http://isc.independent.gov.uk/

Membership

The Committee consists of nine Members, drawn from both Houses of Parliament and appointed by Parliament. The Chair of the Committee is elected by its Members.

Rules have become a bit meh.......In banana republic britain 2020 independent panels and committees are infiltrated and manipulated with stooges so it goes how 'el presidente' and his 'brain for hire' wants it to go.

How long do you give Lewis in that ISC role?

 

[drdel]

My posts will point out where I see lies, deceits or dissembling in respect of anything. And as Johnson is PM, what he says and does matters.

On Brexit - the government has either sown the seeds, and we will reap the harvest - or it has sown the wind, and we will reap the whirlwind. He and they will be judged by the electorate in time accordingly. Arguing the Pros and Cons of leaving are for me now irrelevant. The reality of what happens is what matters.

Besides I have problems close to home to worry about - problems directly impacted by what Johnson and the government says and does, and how the public, business and industry reacts in response.

I think my problem lies in the fact you said Brexit is a subject you wished to put in the past yet you continue to (IMO rant) on that very same topic.

IMO you undermine your good points by using pseudo religious phraseology " From the Brexit seed that we have sown so shall we reap - or from the wind we have sown we shall reap the whirlwind. ". It infers that those who disagree are less moral/religious less righteous than yourself.

 

[BubbaP]

Chris Grayling? Intelligence committee?

I see words and question marks, but no questions. Do you care to enlighten?

 

[Hobbit]

I am not answering the questions because I am tired of the brexit machinations, my point is about Johnson - not brexit. Brexit is done. Johnson and his crew can get on with it.

YOU habe been the main instigator of every Brexit question And slagging off of the U.K. but when the questions get tough you go and hide. Disgraceful response!

 

[Hobbit]

The thread is about Johnson and not the Pros and Cons of Brexit. Brexit is done. No point in debating the Pros and Cons.

I simply look at what Johnson promised and claimed for Brexit and what it appears is likely to happen. And when what was promised or claimed back then and since then was challenged and these challenges were thrown into the Project Fear bucket, then that can be pointed out.

I no longer have any interest in debating the Pros and Cons of Brexit - after all - I have been told for four years to get over it. I have.

But that does not make use of events from the past irrelevant - as we should learn from what we have been told would happen and what has actually happened (see also government management of the pandemic response) as pointers to caution and advise us on what we are being told today and what is the best way ahead.

I repeat. Brexit is Done. Over. From the Brexit seed that we have sown so shall we reap - or from the wind we have sown we shall reap the whirlwind. It is (way) too early to tell which - but perhaps we can start to sense. Meanwhile we can simply watch and listen and when the time comes we can judge Johnson and his government accordingly.

Brexit is done, and it’s now about the negotiations. The questions were where do YOU stand on the EU’s demands?

You’re not daft Hugh, certainly can’t be with the job you do. You know exactly where you stand on those questions surrounding the negotiations but you refuse to answer them. Coward?

And we know, by default, exactly where you stand too. Be honest, if you can. But I think you have a very serious issue admitting to everyone on here what you really believe....

And as previously stated, I will continue to ask them until you find a shred of honesty.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Brexit is done, and it’s now about the negotiations. The questions were where do YOU stand on the EU’s demands?

You’re not daft Hugh, certainly can’t be with the job you do. You know exactly where you stand on those questions surrounding the negotiations but you refuse to answer them. Coward?

And we know, by default, exactly where you stand too. Be honest, if you can. But I think you have a very serious issue admitting to everyone on here what you really believe....

And as previously stated, I will continue to ask them until you find a shred of honesty.

As far as the EUs demands? What of what they are demanding could we not reasonably have expected them to seek. My view on all of these questions is simple. If we wish to have tariff free access to the single market and the 5 questions you list are the EUs non-negotiable demands on us - then if I want the UK to have access to the tariff free access to the single market and they are the price then though I might not like any of them if it is the price to pay then so be it.

 

[Hobbit]

As far as the EUs demands? What of what they are demanding could we not reasonably have expected them to seek. My view on all of these questions is simple. If we wish to have tariff free access to the single market and the 5 questions you list are the EUs non-negotiable demands on us - then if I want the UK to have access to the tariff free access to the single market and they are the price then though I might not like any of them if it is the price to pay then so be it.

I think the issue is "reasonably." And, AGAIN, do you agree with each of those demands? I've copied them in below as a reminder. A straight yes or no to each of them will suffice - no need for the waffle above.

Do you agree with the EU have the same access to UK waters from Jan 21st?
Do you agree with the ECJ been the arbitrator from Jan 21st?
Do you agree with the EU being in charge of subsidies for UK industries?
Do you agree with the EU being in charge of quotas for trade agreements the UK might make with 3rd countries?
Do you agree with the EU's demand for a level playing field on standards?

Do you agree with the EU pulling the Canada-style deal they originally offered, stating that 'local' geography is the reason?

 

[Mudball]

I see words and question marks, but no questions. Do you care to enlighten?

I guess @hacker is talking about Failing Grayling's excellent track record and questioning the intellgence behind the appointment. A lap dog to kill the report or ignore....

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Assuming that the report does show Russian interference in the election what are the repercussions from that and what could happen?

Hang on I'll ask the wife.
She said what a daft question.


Me ...well as I do not know what it is that this government seem to be hiding/delaying from being published.
I haven't a scooby doo.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I think the issue is "reasonably." And, AGAIN, do you agree with each of those demands? I've copied them in below as a reminder. A straight yes or no to each of them will suffice - no need for the waffle above.

Do you agree with the EU have the same access to UK waters from Jan 21st?
Do you agree with the ECJ been the arbitrator from Jan 21st?
Do you agree with the EU being in charge of subsidies for UK industries?
Do you agree with the EU being in charge of quotas for trade agreements the UK might make with 3rd countries?
Do you agree with the EU's demand for a level playing field on standards?

Do you agree with the EU pulling the Canada-style deal they originally offered, stating that 'local' geography is the reason?

If we are to have full tariff free access to the single market and that minimises the impact on the NI/EU border and internal NI/rUK 'border'- and the EU requires us to meet each of these demands - then yes. Nobody said it would be easy...hmmm.

And I get the 'proximity' issue being a significant differentiator between Canada and the UK - maybe we should have grabbed it when they offered it.

 

[Mudball]

Hang on I'll ask the wife.
She said what a daft question.


Me ...well as I do not know what it is that this government seem to be hiding/delaying from being published.
I haven't a scooby doo.

As the great Trump says,... its a witch hunt and waste of time..

 

[Hobbit]

If we are to have full tariff free access to the single market and that minimises the impact on the NI/EU border and internal NI/rUK 'border'- and the EU requires us to meet each of these demands - then yes. Nobody said it would be easy...hmmm.

And I get the 'proximity' issue being a significant differentiator between Canada and the UK - maybe we should have grabbed it when they offered it.

First of all, thank you for answering. Secondly, really?

I expect there to be a quid pro quo over fishing access for a number of reasons. Its a common sense trade off. Ring fencing all the stock for a UK fleet that no longer exists is just dumb, and its a great opportunity for some middle ground.

But the ECJ isn't independent, and you're willing to accept them as arbitrator? Really?

You're willing to accept the EU as the overarching body on subsidies, AND compromise the UK's trading position with the rest of the world? Really? Where's the intelligence in that?

Similarly, to above with quotas, you're willing to give up the UK's attractive position in negotiations with the rest of the world? Really?

Standards; this is a far more complex issue. Every manufacture that wants to export into the EU will have to manufacture to the EU's standards anyway. So why is the EU asking for this? It gives the EU control over the UK govt on standards. What about environmental standards? Unlike the UK, southern Europe pays lip service to meeting environmental standards. When Spain get it wrong they get a wrist slap. When France get it wrong, and fine - Spain doesn't, they ignore it. When Italy get it wrong, they get a fine, which like France they ignore and just carry on. Greece, until recently, did as they were told on standards but now they've met all the financial recovery rules set by Germany they are back to doing what they want. AND FINALLY, when the UK got it wrong they played a straight bat and paid the fine. The EU will fine the UK for every single thing - maybe you aren't aware but the EU has several cases going on against the UK for lots of trivia, and its all to do with raising money for the EU - its that transparent.

The geography issue is an absolute farce. I can't believe you've fallen for it, unless of course you want to. If I agree a delivery date with you of next week, what has geography got to do with it? And if its rolling deliveries, say 3 times a week, what has distance got to do with it. Canada can agree the same delivery schedules. You are a project manager, you know all the in's and out's of on time deliveries, even from Japan. Geography doesn't play a part, and you know that.

Once again, thanks for answering. Now, if you can, step back from your answers and view them objectively against a why would someone ask for that and why would it pass the test of 'natural justice' in an an equitable trade agreement? I don't think you are capable of viewing it objectively for two simple reasons. One, even subconsciously you can't accept the Tories/Boris achieving a good deal, but you could if it was Labour. And two, the harping back to past lies from the Brexit campaign clearly shows you haven't accepted the result. The Theresa May's abject capitulation on the agreement is, apparently, what you want. It would make the UK a slave state, worse than Norway.

 

[Hackers76]

So what you are saying is keep going until he agrees with you. The constant bombardment is getting boring

 

[Hobbit]

So what you are saying is keep going until he agrees with you. The constant bombardment is getting boring

Feel free to scroll on by, and thanks for your constructive contribution

 

[Foxholer]

If we are to have full tariff free access to the single market and that minimises the impact on the NI/EU border and internal NI/rUK 'border'- and the EU requires us to meet each of these demands - then yes. Nobody said it would be easy...hmmm.

And I get the 'proximity' issue being a significant differentiator between Canada and the UK - maybe we should have grabbed it when they offered it.

That would be the worst of both worlds imo! Having to bear the costs (not just financial) of EU membership without any benefit!
Tariff free access is just as (actually, even more!) beneficial to EU nations as it is to UK. so highly desirable to get sorted. It MAY be why Gove et al have only now started funding developments to handle the alternative - giving the EU negotiators 'hope' that UK is committed to continuing as now!

I'm certain the EU would have found a way to renege on any 'grabbed' deal! That's simply what they do - as 'negotiators'! And it's what they are doing now!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

That would be the worst of both worlds imo! Having to bear the costs (not just financial) of EU membership without any benefit!
Tariff free access is just as (actually, even more!) beneficial to EU nations as it is to UK. so highly desirable to get sorted. It MAY be why Gove et al have only now started funding developments to handle the alternative - giving the EU negotiators 'hope' that UK is committed to continuing as now!

I'm certain the EU would have found a way to renege on any 'grabbed' deal! That's simply what they do - as 'negotiators'! And it's what they are doing now!

If unfettered access to the EU single market and a seamless border between NI and rUK are considered to be critical for UK and NI business - and the EU does not budge on it's demands - then what to do? I do not know what is least bad on balance - not really looking like Best of Both Worlds...

It is not that we weren't warned that if UK was adamant about what it had sold to the electorate then there was a racing certainty that the outcome would not include the access to the single market that we were also sold. Who knows - maybe the EU will capitulate. Maybe we will end up with the Best of Both Worlds that Johnson and Gove et al sold us. Would be sweet indeed...in the context of the pandemic it feels like we really need it.