Boris the PM - a new beginning

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Lord Tyrion said:
Personally, I have no problem in various cabinet ministers giving briefings. Not only does it spread the load but it reduces the cult of the leader. Also no bad thing for us to get familiar with all members of the cabinet rather than just 2 or 3 in the key posts.
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Except it risks exposing any thinness of talent or lack of depth of experience that may exist in the cabinet ;)

I am happy that we don't see Hancock all the time - he does fine - but I get the feeling that he is shouldering too much of the burden; looks knackered, and seems to be getting rather stressed and tetchy at times.
 
Swinglowandslow said:
You certainly come over as not being able to listen to anyone from this government without prejudice. Now you've virtually admitted it.
I always thought it good practice to listen to people without prejudice and then examine what was said and then make a conclusion.
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One might try but I suspect that some here would struggle to listen without prejudice to such as McCluskey, Sturgeon, Abbott or Corbyn...just saying :)
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
The caretaker? Careful now - I got criticised for suggesting that we were getting ministers from the 2nd 11.? Though to be fair, as he was new to me he didn’t come with the dissembling baggage most come with and so I was able to listen to him (nearly) without any great prejudice ?
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Selective AGAIN!

You got criticised for sticking the boot in before he took his second breath. And the same post that criticised you for doing it also said by all means do so after you’ve heard it all, if you still felt the same way.

Disappointing, but why am I surprised...
 
So the guy gets ill, needs oxygen in an ICU for several days additionally and, meanwhile, his partner gives birth. Even though several others guys who have survived being on assisted breathing after Covid19 are still very ill and some have needed to return to hospital: BM is expected be 100%.

The PM gets shot at for not doing a full days work - he's a politician and fair game for criticism but the personal nature of the 'pops' are all a bit shameful IMO.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Except it risks exposing any thinness of talent or lack of depth of experience that may exist in the cabinet ;)

I am happy that we don't see Hancock all the time - he does fine - but I get the feeling that he is shouldering too much of the burden; looks knackered, and seems to be getting rather stressed and tetchy at times.
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The only way to get experience is to get out and do the job. If they are not up to it then they will soon get exposed and moved on.

In terms of Hancock, you can't have it both ways. If you want to ease his burden then it has to go on to his colleagues.
 
drdel said:
So the guy gets ill, needs oxygen in an ICU for several days additionally and, meanwhile, his partner gives birth. Even though several others guys who have survived being on assisted breathing after Covid19 are still very ill and some have needed to return to hospital: BM is expected be 100%.

The PM gets shot at for not doing a full days work - he's a politician and fair game for criticism but the personal nature of the 'pops' are all a bit shameful IMO.
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Last time I looked the PM job was pretty substantial roll, you are either fit to do it or not.
To me he is not fit enough to carry on as PM and should step aside to let a fully fit colleague stand in until he recovers.
I doubt his ego would allow that though.
 
Looks like Johnson is working today as I hear he has rejected calls to cancel the NHS charge immigrants working in the health and care sector have to pay. And notwithstanding calls from conservatives that increases in tax to help pay for the coronavirus payments should be avoided - it seems to be OK to increase what is essentially a tax when the NHS charge is increased later this year. Neat. Well I shall be applauding with a clear conscience this evening.

But 'nice' that the government has now U-turned and decided that families of the lower paid immigrant workers in the NHS who die as a result of coronavirus can have indefinite leave to stay in the UK. That our government ever thought that such a policy was anything but dubious makes you wonder - but I am afraid I wonder not a lot.
 
Hobbit said:
Selective AGAIN!

You got criticised for sticking the boot in before he took his second breath. And the same post that criticised you for doing it also said by all means do so after you’ve heard it all, if you still felt the same way.

Disappointing, but why am I surprised...
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No I didn't Brian - I simply said that I didn't know him.

As the cabinet comprises the PM plus 21 ministers, and given he has a lower profile than many and not sure he has done a briefing previously, I suggest it is not completely unfair to suggest that he is a member of the 2nd Eleven - but OK - on this occasion he got a run-out for the 1st Eleven :) And I thought he made a reasonable fist of his opportunity.
 
Lord Tyrion said:
The only way to get experience is to get out and do the job. If they are not up to it then they will soon get exposed and moved on.

In terms of Hancock, you can't have it both ways. If you want to ease his burden then it has to go on to his colleagues.
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Indeed. I would prefer to have one of Sunak, Hancock or the PM for each briefing. Maybe we need to see Rees-Mogg taking his turn.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
No I didn't Brian - I simply said that I didn't know him.

As the cabinet comprises the PM plus 21 ministers, and given he has a lower profile than many and not sure he has done a briefing previously, I suggest it is not completely unfair to suggest that he is a member of the 2nd Eleven - but OK - on this occasion he got a run-out for the 1st Eleven :) And I thought he made a reasonable fist of his opportunity.
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Really, simply said? Have a read back of your post, specifically the fealty comment.

As for sacking previous ministers, every manager/director/CEO/MD, and PM “builds” their own team around them. It’s as natural a consequence as breathing. It’s called “forming, storming, norming and reforming.” Why would any manager do any differently, why butt heads when you want to get things done? And it’s not about yes men, it’s about like minded men.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Indeed. I would prefer to have one of Sunak, Hancock or the PM for each briefing. Maybe we need to see Rees-Mogg taking his turn.
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I’d much prefer a senior Cabinet Member but accept that sometimes some of them are busy, e.g. the PM and Hancock were at PMQ’s yesterday.

No sign of Priti since her last briefing a while back

As an aside, did you see the Speaker give Hancock a good slap down, basically saying shut up or leave the house?
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Looks like Johnson is working today as I hear he has rejected calls to cancel the NHS charge immigrants working in the health and care sector have to pay. And notwithstanding calls from conservatives that increases in tax to help pay for the coronavirus payments should be avoided - it seems to be OK to increase what is essentially a tax when the NHS charge is increased later this year. Neat. Well I shall be applauding with a clear conscience this evening.

But 'nice' that the government has now U-turned and decided that families of the lower paid immigrant workers in the NHS who die as a result of coronavirus can have indefinite leave to stay in the UK. That our government ever thought that such a policy was anything but dubious makes you wonder - but I am afraid I wonder not a lot.
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So pragmatically, in foreign policy where would you draw the line that is fair and manageable:- Oxford researchers, Asta Zenica, Army, etc etc all people putting their shoulders to the wheel to support the NHS. Perhaps not in hospitals/Care Homes but never-the-less the whole 'chain' needs to function for the 'front end' to work.

Policy and regulation based on emotion and kneejerk reactions are rarely prudent.
 
drdel said:
So pragmatically, in foreign policy where would you draw the line that is fair and manageable:- Oxford researchers, Asta Zenica, Army, etc etc all people putting their shoulders to the wheel to support the NHS. Perhaps not in hospitals/Care Homes but never-the-less the whole 'chain' needs to function for the 'front end' to work.

Policy and regulation based on emotion and kneejerk reactions are rarely prudent.
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Do they work in the UK and do they pay tax and NI? And the proposed increase which will make the charge for many on the minimum wage equivalent to about 2 weeks work.

Government will be cursing the Syrian guy working as a porter who posted a video about the differentiation over a families right of residency after a death in service NHS/Care between the poorest paid in the NHS/Care and those earning a bit more. I suppose this does chime with Patel's immigration policy 'minimum income requirement'
 
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SwingsitlikeHogan said:
The caretaker? Careful now - I got criticised for suggesting that we were getting ministers from the 2nd 11.? Though to be fair, as he was new to me he didn’t come with the dissembling baggage most come with and so I was able to listen to him (nearly) without any great prejudice ?
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You were asked why you thought the professor and the minister was second team - something you still have refused to answer.
 
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