Blatant banditry

[bluewolf]

I dont enter that many comps,or play that many rounds with other members, but thats because I work strange shifts, and cannot guarantee start times. Not because I want to preserve my handicap. The last comp i entered, I won. Ive got another on Sunday and strangely enough, im hoping I dont win it as i dont want to be pereived as a bandito. If you're lucky enough to be able to enter plenty of comps then good luck to you. If you aren't then it isn't particularly pleasant to hear people assuming that you are a cheat..
And for the record, if someone had told me that they were manipulating their handicap in order to win certain comps then I would have been straight into the handicap committee, People leave this sport because they see people scoring 40+ points in stableford comps regularly. Cheats belong in other sports, not this one....

 

[pokerjoke]

I dont enter that many comps,or play that many rounds with other members, but thats because I work strange shifts, and cannot guarantee start times. Not because I want to preserve my handicap. The last comp i entered, I won. Ive got another on Sunday and strangely enough, im hoping I dont win it as i dont want to be pereived as a bandito. If you're lucky enough to be able to enter plenty of comps then good luck to you. If you aren't then it isn't particularly pleasant to hear people assuming that you are a cheat..
And for the record, if someone had told me that they were manipulating their handicap in order to win certain comps then I would have been straight into the handicap committee, People leave this sport because they see people scoring 40+ points in stableford comps regularly. Cheats belong in other sports, not this one....

Definately not accussing anyone of cheating.
However here lies the problem that you only have to enter 3 comps a year to have an active handicap.
40 points imo is nowhere near banditry,i cant remember the last time a comp was won at my course with less than 40 points,even though it probably has.
I can safely say if you have not got 40 or more points you can forget winning.
Protecting your handicap to win big comps like the guy in the op is so easy to do,if you percieve to do it.

 

[bluewolf]

My handicap is active but I probably only play 10-12 qualifying comps per year. I play most rounds on my own (probably because I'm a anti-social so and so). I also take great pride in every drop. It infuriates me to see cheating this obvious. 30 years ago we used to hold football cheats in contempt. Now we celebrate them and call it gamesmanship. If we allow people to cheat. Then it WILL become widespread and accepted. Stamp it out now. And stamp it out hard. 1 year comp ban for anyone caught.
Maybe 40 points was a bit low. But 45 and over is definately suspect.

 

[pokerjoke]

To be honest i think it infuriates everyone that blatant cheating goes on,however in every walk of life where financial gain is applicable there is always someone who will cheat,lie or steal.
The thing i dont really get is why the player concerned was shouting out about what he was doing so all could hear,surely it is something to keep to yourself.

 

[bluewolf]

because its becoming accepted? if enough people hear the boasts and do nothing about it, then why not keep boasting.. pretty soon we'll all be playing off 28 and the average score will be 25 under par...

 

[bluewolf]

oh and here's another thought while im still annoyed. You don't want to be the person who complains about another. How do you know that the committee has not already had several complaints and is just witing for 1 more before they progress. This chancer may be well known to them...Shop him quietly, without too much fuss and then forget all about it...

 

[Mungoscorner]

It is OUR responsibilty as Golfers,to protect anybody playing in any competition,we can do this in two ways....

1)Report anybody cheating during play.
2) Report anybody you believe is playing with a fabricated handicap.

If we don't report this sort of s**t,not only are we allowing them to cheat us,we are allowing them to cheat everybody else,and in my book playing with a dodgy Handicap is as bad as throwing a ball down in the semi rough,after you couldn't find it in the deep stuff.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

You have 2 choices

1 Ignore it
2 Report it

If you ignore it, you condone it, if you condone it, you are as bad as them.

You have to report it, its the right thing to do

may The Force Be With You

Fragger

 

[Fyldewhite]

If you ignore it, you condone it, if you condone it, you are as bad as them.

You have to report it, its the right thing to do

Absolutely agree with this. As a committee member of some years it frustrates me no end the number of members who bad mouth others about out and out cheating as well as (more commonly) people who think it's just fine to go out on a Wednesday "to get 0.1" prior to Saturdays major comp and then will never report officially what they have seen.

These people are cheats pure and simple and need bringing to book. Every club has them. I've started saying things like "....another 0.1 today? Well done, why not just kick it out of the rough as well, not as much effort needed" to their face in the bar and I hope the message is getting through. Winds me up no end. They are simply not playing the same game as the rest of us and it's their loss if only they knew it.

 

[Smiffy]

Very similar experience to what my mate Norman and I experienced playing in a local newspapers knock out competition.
We played really well, got through to the 1/4 finals and drew a couple of guys at Gillingham GC in Kent.
At the time I was playing well, off 14 but on the way down. Norman was steady off of 11. We were drawn against a 9 handicapper and another 14 handicapper so were looking forward to a good, tight game.
Wrong!!
The 14 handicapper played better than the 9 handicapper. He was teeing off first and didn't miss a fairway, hitting everything long and straight. The 9 handicapper was doing diddly squat. The first time the 14 handicapper mishit a tee shot was on about the 12th hole when the 9 handicapper suddenly pulled his "drive of the day" out of the bag and mullered one.
I think we were about 4 down at the turn and got stuffed 6&5. At the time of shaking hands, I was 2 under my handicap and Norman was around his.
The 14 handicapper must have been about 8 or 9 under par with his shots.
Norman wasn't going to stop for a drink afterwards, he didn't feel much like celebrating after we had been cheated, but I talked him into it as we had a long drive home.
Got chatting to the higher handicapper in the bar and asked him why his handicap was so high.
He didn't play in competitions and his society of mates had cut him to 8 when he played with them.
Fecking cheat.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I'm still in shock reading this. I'm probably the most laid back non-confrontational guy I know but in that situation I'd have said something, walked out after telling him I was reporting him. I'd also be telling the organisers of the Trilby tour.

There are enough guys like me playing this game and working hard to reduce their h'cap. I don't expect to win but I do expect a level playing field. An 8 h'capper who hasn't shot more the +2 in months is a cheat pure and simple and needs to be exposed.

 

[pokerjoke]

I'm still in shock reading this. I'm probably the most laid back non-confrontational guy I know but in that situation I'd have said something, walked out after telling him I was reporting him. I'd also be telling the organisers of the Trilby tour.

There are enough guys like me playing this game and working hard to reduce their h'cap. I don't expect to win but I do expect a level playing field. An 8 h'capper who hasn't shot more the +2 in months is a cheat pure and simple and needs to be exposed.

Why would you expect a level playing field and then not expect to win,surely thats the whole idea.
If all things fair,thats exactly what i would expect.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I'm still in shock reading this. I'm probably the most laid back non-confrontational guy I know but in that situation I'd have said something, walked out after telling him I was reporting him. I'd also be telling the organisers of the Trilby tour.

There are enough guys like me playing this game and working hard to reduce their h'cap. I don't expect to win but I do expect a level playing field. An 8 h'capper who hasn't shot more the +2 in months is a cheat pure and simple and needs to be exposed.

Why would you expect a level playing field and then not expect to win,surely thats the whole idea.
If all things fair,thats exactly what i would expect.

Why would I expect to win? If you go into a golf competiton expecting to win you're a bandit. If I play well I expect to have a chance but I never expect to win

 

[pokerjoke]

I'm still in shock reading this. I'm probably the most laid back non-confrontational guy I know but in that situation I'd have said something, walked out after telling him I was reporting him. I'd also be telling the organisers of the Trilby tour.

There are enough guys like me playing this game and working hard to reduce their h'cap. I don't expect to win but I do expect a level playing field. An 8 h'capper who hasn't shot more the +2 in months is a cheat pure and simple and needs to be exposed.

Why would you expect a level playing field and then not expect to win,surely thats the whole idea.
If all things fair,thats exactly what i would expect.

Why would I expect to win? If you go into a golf competiton expecting to win you're a bandit. If I play well I expect to have a chance but I never expect to win

I think i have a different mentallity to you Hawkeye,i never go into a game not expecting to win,a handicap is a leveller so all things equal i would expect to win because i would believe i could.
Certainly not a bandit,just a person who has a positive attitude.

 

[Imurg]

Jammy, you could have just taken him to one side and given him a 9 iron without Vaseline, grip first!!

This is unbelievable. Even if you get considered a "Grass" you have to report this asap.
These Guys need taking down.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I'm still in shock reading this. I'm probably the most laid back non-confrontational guy I know but in that situation I'd have said something, walked out after telling him I was reporting him. I'd also be telling the organisers of the Trilby tour.

There are enough guys like me playing this game and working hard to reduce their h'cap. I don't expect to win but I do expect a level playing field. An 8 h'capper who hasn't shot more the +2 in months is a cheat pure and simple and needs to be exposed.

Why would you expect a level playing field and then not expect to win,surely thats the whole idea.
If all things fair,thats exactly what i would expect.

Why would I expect to win? If you go into a golf competiton expecting to win you're a bandit. If I play well I expect to have a chance but I never expect to win

I think i have a different mentallity to you Hawkeye,i never go into a game not expecting to win,a handicap is a leveller so all things equal i would expect to win because i would believe i could.
Certainly not a bandit,just a person who has a positive attitude.

I'm always positive, but in a field of 60 or 70 guys and a level playing field it's surely madness to expect to win? I always go out to par every hole (which of course I don't and never have) but if I shoot 4 under my h'cap I have to be realistic and expect there could be someone 5 under. I just think expecting to win in this game will lead to a lot of disappointment. All I can do is control my game and shoot as low as I can, anything after that is a bonus.

I wasn't suggesting you were a bandit, I just think if you expect to win, you must have a reason to believe you have an advantage over everyone else, which on a level playing field you don't.

I guess we just focus on different ways of being positive (and we've probably highjacked enough of this thread )

 

[timgolfy]

Excuse my ignorance, but have they broken any rules? If the system can be abused as much as they have, surely it's the system which is at fault as much as they may be?

And if they are at one end of the scale of banditry, how many players are in the shades of grey in between? How many times do players in competition who start poorly give up on the remainder of the round knowing that their handicap will probably increase? Is this not also cheating? If you can't honestly say that you give 100% effort in every single handicap scoring event, are you also not a cheat?

In an ideal world everyone would give 100% effort. This strikes to much of horse racing and the implications to gambling. Everyone knows horse betting is crooked because the punters have no idea if each horse in the race is out for a 100% effort, and so the form book becomes distorted.

Any system which relies on the goodwill of others to operate is ultimately flawed. It becomes a game of honesty, of which there is clearly not enough in society these days.

Handicap competitions within a club my be self-policing, but go outside that circle and there is too much room for abuse, it seems.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I don't disagree Tim, I have a lot of issues with the h'cap system but I won't go into that. But this is cheating on a massive and blatant scale, if these guys were happy to admit this to the OP then they have probably admitted it to a lot of people but ignoring it is condoning it. To an extent this game has to be policed by us, the people who play it. Just because the system enables such extremes isn't a reason to let it go.

 

[Bratty]

How many times do players in competition who start poorly give up on the remainder of the round knowing that their handicap will probably increase?

If you enter a card and N/R (non return) you still go up 0.1. So there's no possibility to keep your handicap artificially low once you enter and tee off in a comp (not sure about injury during a game though). You can not enter comps to keep it low, of course.

And they may not have broken any rules I'm not sure), but they've sure as hell broken all sorts of ethics and social morays!

 

[scottbrown]

I don't ever go out to win and in 3 years never have. However I always go out with the intention of shooting under my handicap and getting cut.

I am in the trilby this year and so far before the event I have cut 3 shots of my handicap. Others have said I am mad for trying to get low before the event. However my view is that I have more chance the lower my handicap is as it's off 3/4 handicaps. Ie the lower the handicap the less shots you lose on the day.

Different mindsets I guess, but the guy mentioned who is keeping handicap high for trilby is nothing but a cheat and I hope he Is not in my group on the day.