Baroness Thatcher Dead

[FairwayDodger]

A pretty balanced article attached

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...reedom-for-workers-nations-and-the-world.html

Hmmm... I think we have a different definition of the word "balanced" it puts a certain spin on things and contradicts my recollection of her handling of SA (it was a long time ago, admittedly! )

Regardless....

I also consider it crass and inappropriate to celebrate her death. She achieved a lot, and deserves credit for being the first female PM. Sadly not for many of her policies.

She was a polarising figure - an idol of the right, enemy of the left and people's views of her will be shaded by their own political perspective. For me, as a student in the latter years of her time as PM, I was not an admirer. In addition to everything raised here already how about abolishing student grants and introducing "Section 28"?

I'm too young (don't get to say that often enough any more!) to know what working in the 70s was like and whether posters are correct to suggest that she needed to tackle the unions and close down so much of our heavy industry. Consider this, however. Assuming it's true that these industries were inefficient and dependant on government subsidy at least they provided jobs and respect for people. All that was really achieved by encouraging the free market and international capitalism and allowing these industries to die was that the work moved to low-cost economies.

Now we have millions unemployed and millions more underemployed relying on benefits and working tax credits; much has been made of this by the tory supporters on here. Which was better - subsidising industries to provide real jobs or subsidising the people who can't find jobs paying a living wage?

Perhaps there was another option that she was too ruthless or dogmatic to explore?

The poll tax thing is interesting. I had long bought into the line that it was "tried out" in Scotland first but have actually been persuaded overnight that wasn't the case at all. It seems English councils weren't as prepared for it as up here and the secretary of state pushed for it to go ahead to try to deflect the grief he was receiving over the rates system. Possibly the best argument to support this is that is it had just been a trial why didn't she cancel the roll out in England since it was such a disaster up here?

 

[ArnoldArmChewer]

RIP, a strong leader, oh how we could do with that quality right now!

 

[Val]

Incidentally , it is often forgotten that the Community Charge (as it was called) was included in the Tory manifesto for the 1987 General Election. The nation voted for it. However, as cabinet minister Parkinson said at the time "nothing concentrates the mind more than a bill hitting the door mat." It is also true that Mrs. T wasn't happy with it but also thought the Rates system unfair. She wanted to scrap local government tax altogether but was persuaded that there should be some link between the taxpayer and local authority as this may help lower taxing authorities to be elected. If we are being fair we should accept that this is a problem that is still wrestled with by today's politicians eg the Lib Dems mansion tax.

Scotland got it before everyone else, what happened one nation and all that?

 

[freddielong]

RIP quite simply one of the greatest Britons

 

[Liverbirdie]

Did the south do brilliant under thatcher, did the police, did the army, did multi-millionaires, bankers, capitalists - yes.

Did the north suffer under thatcher,did the manufacturing industries,did the old, infirm,unemployed - yes.

Strong leadership, - yes, but only beneficial on the right side of the divide.

I think we have reached a stage of "the cult of personality" with thatcher.

The German economy come through the 1980's, sometimes with inferior products, but they still have a large manufacturing base.

 

[Imurg]

I find it quite a sad state of affairs that this "debate" is only being held because an Old Lady has died and that so many have held such a grudge for so long.
If she hadn't would this have started?

She did good, she did bad - mirroring every PM before and since.
Not everyone liked her, not everyone hated her.
But she stood up for what she believed was right - isn't that what everyone who hated her is doing? Scargill, Hatton and all the rest?
Everyone on here being glad she's gone - stating what they believe to be right?
She just had a different point of view.

Life's to short to dwell on Policy mistakes(or otherwise) from 30-odd years ago.
Move on.
Remember by all means, it happened and for some it made life hard - But time to move on.

 

[Val]

Remember by all means, it happened and for some it made life hard - But time to move on.

Some people will find it hard to move on, particularly those who's families had it hard when her government stopped their pay packets by closing mines and factories.

People who never experienced this will find it sad people won't move on, those who suffered might forgive but they will never forget.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Where would they get the money from?
All sold off for a fraction of what they were worth, just not viable.
As for Council house sales, great for the few that got a house cheap, but not for the councils that built them and could not use the proceeds to build more.

What do we have now, a massive shortage of affordable housing!

As the Exec Editor of the i newspaper noted today. His parents bought their council house off Crydon Council under 'right to buy'. This was great for his family. And then three years later Croydon council in desperation for housing bought the house back off his parents at a massive loss to the council and great profit for his parents - and who were now gratefully (to the Tories) on the housing ladder. He still is somewhat uncomfortable with the rights or wrongs of that.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I find it quite a sad state of affairs that this "debate" is only being held because an Old Lady has died and that so many have held such a grudge for so long.
If she hadn't would this have started?

She did good, she did bad - mirroring every PM before and since.
Not everyone liked her, not everyone hated her.
But she stood up for what she believed was right - isn't that what everyone who hated her is doing? Scargill, Hatton and all the rest?
Everyone on here being glad she's gone - stating what they believe to be right?
She just had a different point of view.

Life's to short to dwell on Policy mistakes(or otherwise) from 30-odd years ago.
Move on.
Remember by all means, it happened and for some it made life hard - But time to move on.

+1 well said

 

[Doon frae Troon]

In the early years she had many working class supporters.
Her policies were very one sided and she soon lost those votes.

Funny how as the years roll on folk forget that nearly all of the money raised from local council house sales went to the government.
The sales of council houses was a weapon for the Tories to fund and break the loony lefts rule of London, you could say the same about the poll tax.
It was not appropriate for the rest of the UK.

 

[JustOne]

Brilliant that people who have the time, money and the LUXURY to hit a ball around a field in their spare time can post as if all hasn't worked out quite well for them... oh the irony!

Without Maggie we'd all be down a mine

 

[Val]

Brilliant that people who have the time, money and the LUXURY to hit a ball around a field in their spare time can post as if all hasn't worked out quite well for them... oh the irony!

Without Maggie we'd all be down a mine

Making a fortune

 

[JustOne]

Making a fortune

So we can hit a ball round a field in our spare time..... oh, hang on....

 

[Phil2511]

She can't have been all that bad and her ideas must have been liked by the many.

She did get re elected twice, so had 3 stints as PM. Voted in democratically by the people of the UK.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I was hitting a ball round a field when Sir Anthony Eden was prime minister so that one does not apply to me!

 

[JustOne]

She can't have been all that bad and her ideas must have been liked by the many.

She did get re elected twice, so had 3 stints as PM. Voted in democratically by the people of the UK.

Obviously not every decision is going to please every single person but we're all sitting here now at OUR COMPUTERS, probably with the HEATING ON wishing we could be on the GOLF COURSE instead.... it worked out so badly for us lot didn't it :mmm:

 

[deepblue12]

Greatest politician this country ever had.....

RIP Maggie!!

 

[SocketRocket]

From a shopkeepers Daughter in Grantham to the first Woman Prime Minister. A National leader with a strength of determination and purpose similar to Churchill, someone who leaves modern day politicians in her shadow.

No one who has to introduce the type of change she faced that was needed to drag Britain out of it's image as 'the sick man of Europe' was going to be popular. Thats how we were seen around the world as 'the sick man'

When I was young and driven more by hormones and a lack of worldly experience I didnt like her or the things se was doing but later I came to understand that you cant please all of the people and that what she achieved created a better place for most people.

 

[Phil2511]

Few people wont have an opinion about Margaret Thatcher (be it good or bad) and debate and discussion are welcomed but I'm going to get in early and ask that folk just exercise a bit of thought when they post here on this thread

Just to reiterate Mikes post for everyone that may have missed it.

 

[In_The_Rough]

Just to reiterate Mikes post for everyone that may have missed it.

I take it some posts have been removed then and quite rightly so