Baroness Thatcher Dead

Phil2511 said:
She can't have been all that bad and her ideas must have been liked by the many.

She did get re elected twice, so had 3 stints as PM. Voted in democratically by the people of the UK.
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There's an element of truth in that although for much of her time the Labour party was self-destructing; the SDP splitting out from it, fairly inept leadership of Michael Foot etc. I think I even voted SNP at the time.... which shows how bad things must have got!
 
HotDogAssassin said:
You put forward a very reasoned and intelligent statement, but REALLY let yourself down with your final comment. :rolleyes:
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Thats just your opinion, perhaps you would like to clarify. Are saying she didn't give the final order to sink the Belgrano? as it steamed away from the exclusion zone? Is my memory that blared?
 
Yes that was indeed an easy decision on who to vote for.
Michael Foot or Margaret Thatcher.

If's and But's.
David Owen, Shirley Williams, Anthony Wedgewood Benn and Michael Hesaltine. All very able politicians.
Wedgie Benn was too far left for me but he was a brilliant minister.
 
Shaunmg said:
Thats just your opinion, perhaps you would like to clarify. Are saying she didn't give the final order to sink the Belgrano? as it steamed away from the exclusion zone? Is my memory that blared?
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The exclusion zone is an irrelevant line on a chart. The PM was advised by her military advisers that the Belgrano, escorted by destroyers (and an aircraft carrier not too far away) were a substantial threat to the task force. The rules of engagement were changed prior to the Belgrano being hit in order to protect the task force. We were at war by the way.
 
FairwayDodger said:
There's an element of truth in that although for much of her time the Labour party was self-destructing; the SDP splitting out from it, fairly inept leadership of Michael Foot etc. I think I even voted SNP at the time.... which shows how bad things must have got!
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Isn't that just confirming what we've said, she saved us from the mire that those you mention, plus the union communists, were dragging us into? She won also because the majority of voters elected her.

The outdated and highly unionised car plants would have closed anyway as they were making cars that no one wanted when the Japanese and Germans etc started bringing in vastly superior cars that looked good, drove better and had, at least, a modicum of reliability - look at the Austin Allegro and Maxi, they didnt even have a heated rear window that you could keep your hands warm whilst pushing them in the winter!
 
Shaunmg said:
Thats just your opinion, perhaps you would like to clarify. Are saying she didn't give the final order to sink the Belgrano? as it steamed away from the exclusion zone? Is my memory that blared?
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"Don't mention the war"
"They started it"
"No we didn't"
"Yes you did, you invaded the Falklands"

But to answer your questions:

Perhaps you would like to clarify.

Not really, no.

Are saying she didn't give the final order to sink the Belgrano?

Not sure where you read that in my comment, perhaps you would like to clarify.

as it steamed away from the exclusion zone?

A warship in service with a country that was at war with ours, which was likely to return and had the potential to inflict death upon our own forces.
 
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Shaunmg said:
Thats just your opinion, perhaps you would like to clarify. Are saying she didn't give the final order to sink the Belgrano? as it steamed away from the exclusion zone? Is my memory that blared?
Click to expand...

Although there were upwards of 1000 people on the belgrano, only (can I use that word?) 320 odd died.

The captain of said ship admitted afterwards that it was a legit target, and that his orders were to engage the enemy where ever he found them. Wikipedia it if you like.

Oh, and we were never at war. It was a conflict.
 
chrisd said:
Isn't that just confirming what we've said, she saved us from the mire that those you mention, plus the union communists, were dragging us into? She won also because the majority of voters elected her.

The outdated and highly unionised car plants would have closed anyway as they were making cars that no one wanted when the Japanese and Germans etc started bringing in vastly superior cars that looked good, drove better and had, at least, a modicum of reliability - look at the Austin Allegro and Maxi, they didnt even have a heated rear window that you could keep your hands warm whilst pushing them in the winter!
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I don't think she "saved" us from anything. It could be argued the medicine was worse than the disease?

I don't have the answers - we know what happened and where it has led us and there's a debate as to whether we're in a better or worse place. No need to rebutt that - there is a debate regardless of how entrenched each side is in their own opinion.

What I wonder is that just maybe she could have attacked the problems of the era with a bit more empathy and understanding and consideration for "ordinary" people and arrived at a different solution. If she had, maybe, just maybe we'd now have (for example) a car manufacturing industry competing with the Germans and the Japanese. But she didn't try to improve British industry - she gave up on it and threw it to the wolves to promote her own ideology. And now our main industries are miss selling financial "instruments".... and burgers and coffee.

Of course, maybe it wouldn't have worked either, we'll never know.
 
In reply to the earlier posts saying that we must have done allright if we can afford to hit a ball around a field in our spare time, that is Thatcherism in it's purest form, I'm doing ok so I don't give a monkey's about anyone else.
I don't deny that I've done ok over the years but I'm one of the lucky ones, many in deprived areas around the UK didn't get the breaks I did and were thrown out with the rubbish by Thatcher.

Someone on the radio said earlier that it was perhaps perfect irony that the inventor of "I'm allright Jack" Thatcherism died alone in a hotel room.
 
FairwayDodger said:
I don't think she "saved" us from anything. It could be argued the medicine was worse than the disease?

I don't have the answers - we know what happened and where it has led us and there's a debate as to whether we're in a better or worse place. No need to rebutt that - there is a debate regardless of how entrenched each side is in their own opinion.

What I wonder is that just maybe she could have attacked the problems of the era with a bit more empathy and understanding and consideration for "ordinary" people and arrived at a different solution. If she had, maybe, just maybe we'd now have (for example) a car manufacturing industry competing with the Germans and the Japanese. But she didn't try to improve British industry - she gave up on it and threw it to the wolves to promote her own ideology. And now our main industries are miss selling financial "instruments".... and burgers and coffee.

Of course, maybe it wouldn't have worked either, we'll never know.
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It's not the governments job to build cars. Surely its Engineers jobs to create the quality products that people need.
 
FairwayDodger said:
I don't think she "saved" us from anything. It could be argued the medicine was worse than the disease?

I don't have the answers - we know what happened and where it has led us and there's a debate as to whether we're in a better or worse place. No need to rebutt that - there is a debate regardless of how entrenched each side is in their own opinion.

What I wonder is that just maybe she could have attacked the problems of the era with a bit more empathy and understanding and consideration for "ordinary" people and arrived at a different solution. If she had, maybe, just maybe we'd now have (for example) a car manufacturing industry competing with the Germans and the Japanese. But she didn't try to improve British industry - she gave up on it and threw it to the wolves to promote her own ideology. And now our main industries are miss selling financial "instruments".... and burgers and coffee.

Of course, maybe it wouldn't have worked either, we'll never know.
Click to expand...



She didn't have much in the way of empathy, she was of course the Iron Lady and was rarely deflected from her plans. Good or bad she did what she thought was right. The car industry and mining were beset with problems that were largely the fault of the trade union leaders and I dont think any amount of help was going to change it.
 
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