Baroness Thatcher Dead

[Sweep]

SWEEP... your love of her is as apparent as your misguidedness.
You must be one of the few Northerners who escaped the damage she caused when in power and the pollution of her legacy OR you are just blinkered or a groomed Daily Mail reader.

Never read the Daily Mail. Put it like this. Without the benefit of hindsight, who would you have voted for in 1979? Record unemployment, some of the highest inflation figures ever seen, UNELECTED union officials holding the country to ransom, rubbish uncollected, dead unburied, threats again of power cuts... I could go on. So, would you want more of the same or someone who is going to put the power back into the hands of the ELECTED? Mr. Callaghan was a fine man, but he had proved he couldn't handle the unions. I would suggest it was anyone who voted Labour in 1979 that was blinkered, not me. No-one has yet answered my questions from one of my (many) previous posts. Why don't you want people to own their own homes? Why don't you want hard working people to own shares? Why don't you want to reward those who are prepared to get off their backsides and go to work with lower taxes? What is it that you have against free enterprise? I have written on here about how I think she went wrong, but the balance of what she did and her legacy is massively in her favour.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Another divisive post. I wouldn't say many Northerners have chips on their shoulder, they have one on both shoulders. I would like to hear people lay out what should have been done to pull this country out of the depth of despair and shame it had descended. It was heading for the type of problems being seen in Greece and Cyprus with no bail out available. Under Labour the pound had tumbled to an all time low against other currencies, inflation was soaring, the country crippled by strikes, we had to go to the IMF to bail us out, we were pouring money into a black hole of Nationalised industries. OH Yes! it was bad but she took the tough decisions to drag us back and regain some respect in the world. Alas you cant achieve that without casualties.

Why divisive? - all I've said is why my parents and I did not like what Thatcher did - simply stating facts about what our feelings were at the time and my feelings today. Even if it is illogical to maintain such a link to the past in my mind that link is there. And if our feelings back then outweighed the 'benefits' that would come from what she was pushing through - then they outweighed them. I'm not today saying what she did was in the end right or wrong - but to us back then - it was deeply damaging and hurtful to those affected. It's very easy to tell someone to take the medicine as it is for the best if you do not have to suffer the bad taste of the medecine yourself.

If the way that we thought back then was not common down south - and the feeling I have even today is not common down here in Surrey where I live - then maybe that is indicative of a divided country then and maybe also today - not me being divisive.

 

[SocketRocket]

Why divisive? - all I've said is why my parents and I did not like what Thatcher did - simply stating facts about what our feelings were at the time and my feelings today. Even if it is illogical to maintain such a link to the past in my mind that link is there. And if our feelings back then outweighed the 'benefits' that would come from what she was pushing through - then they outweighed them. I'm not today saying what she did was in the end right or wrong - but to us back then - it was deeply damaging and hurtful to those affected. It's very easy to tell someone to take the medicine as it is for the best if you do not have to suffer the bad taste of the medecine yourself.

If the way that we thought back then was not common down south - and the feeling I have even today is not common down here in Surrey where I live - then maybe that is indicative of a divided country then and maybe also today - not me being divisive.

Its divisive due to you creating divisions. Divisions between ordinary working people North and South which is a vague description anyway. Ever heard of the Midlands, South, South West, are they all Southerners and tarred with the same brush? All the man in the street (North, South, East and West) could do was vote at an election and the majority voted Conservative during her term. Do you think it was only people in the North that were effected? What about the Car Industry in the Midlands, the Coal Industry in the Midlands and South Wales, the Steel Industry in Wales, etc etc.

I think you are blinkered by blind prejudice and misinformation. Just because Parliament is in London it doesn't mean everyone south of Sheffield had it easy during this time of financial realignment.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Socket
Fine words, perhaps you can no tell us now why they have a 'London Weighting'.

 

[AuburnWarrior]

Socket
Fine words, perhaps you can no tell us now why they have a 'London Weighting'.

Simple - my Wife works in London and pays £3.85 for a sandwich from Eat. She recently spent a week in Liverpool city centre where the same sandwich from the same vendor was £3. Hence London Weighting.

Are golf clubs cheaper outside London? :rofl:

 

[Imurg]

Socket
Fine words, perhaps you can no tell us now why they have a 'London Weighting'.

London Weighting's been around since the 1920's.....

 

[Doon frae Troon]

That is not an explanation. I can buy a £4 sandwich in Edinburgh.

When my daughter went to work in the City and live in Fulham in the 1990's she took us out for a meal and tipped the waitress a tenner. When I said that was mad her explanation was 'that's how London works Dad'.

 

[AuburnWarrior]

That is not an explanation. I can buy a £4 sandwich in Edinburgh.

When my daughter went to work in the City and live in Fulham in the 1990's she took us out for a meal and tipped the waitress a tenner. When I said that was mad her explanation was 'that's how London works Dad'.

It was rather a tongue in cheek explanation....

I guess you'd need to ask an economic historian.

 

[USER1999]

Is London weighting not due to accommodation costs, which can be ridiculous in the London area, and don't improve that much when you get into the stupidly big commuter belt, where rail fares into town are heinously expensive?

 

[Phil2511]

Is London weighting not due to accommodation costs, which can be ridiculous in the London area, and don't improve that much when you get into the stupidly big commuter belt, where rail fares into town are heinously expensive?

A mate of mine is living in London and his 3 bed apartment costs £2,500 a month. In a reasonable area, but not swanky. The same apartment here would be £500 and in Belfast be very maximum £800-£1,000.

 

[SocketRocket]

Socket
Fine words, perhaps you can no tell us now why they have a 'London Weighting'.

Please can you explain to me the relevance of London Weighting to my post? We all know that the cost of living is more in London ;but , I am struggling to see what that has to do with my points on the divisive attitude of the post by SwingsitlikeHogan (and others) that have foggy and prejudiced views on how people from other regions were somehow not affected by the politic of the time in question.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

London finance is all about property values, take the property values away and what do you have.
Why should UK resourses be ploughed into one specific area just to prop up house prices.
If people cannot afford to live there the jobs will soon move to another city.

 

[USER1999]

London finance is all about property values, take the property values away and what do you have.
Why should UK resourses be ploughed into one specific area just to prop up house prices.
If people cannot afford to live there the jobs will soon move to another city.

It's not about propping up house values, but about paying the people who need to work there a wage that is liveable on. Regardless of how many bankers, civil servants and millionaires live there, they still need teachers, ambulance drivers, firemen, policemen, street sweepers, bin men, etc. London weighting lifts the salaries of the necessary people just about enough to continue to stay there.

 

[Neddy]

The North hates Thatcher/The South loves her argument is really really really.....stupid.

Look at any election map in the last 30 years. Millions of people north of the Watford gap vote Conservative

 

[Liverbirdie]

Its divisive due to you creating divisions. Divisions between ordinary working people North and South which is a vague description anyway. Ever heard of the Midlands, South, South West, are they all Southerners and tarred with the same brush? All the man in the street (North, South, East and West) could do was vote at an election and the majority voted Conservative during her term. Do you think it was only people in the North that were effected? What about the Car Industry in the Midlands, the Coal Industry in the Midlands and South Wales, the Steel Industry in Wales, etc etc.

I think you are blinkered by blind prejudice and misinformation. Just because Parliament is in London it doesn't mean everyone south of Sheffield had it easy during this time of financial realignment.

2 things - the majority didn't vote for her, but due to the FPTP nature of British politics, that equates to more seats in the HOC. She was also responsible for "creative" boundary changes.

I notice all your examples are unemployment situations that are still north of Watford. Just face it Winston Churchill unified a nation (and nations), Thatcher has divided them more than any other PM. Both were tories, so political affiliation doesn't matter.

Surely you can see that she divided a nation more than anyone since Cromwell/Charles II times. Not only geographically, but across class lines in the main.

 

[Neddy]

2 things - the majority didn't vote for her, but due to the FPTP nature of British politics, that equates to more seats in the HOC. She was also responsible for "creative" boundary changes.

I notice all your examples are unemployment situations that are still north of Watford.

Point 1/ That can be said of almost every prime minister we've ever had

Point 2/ 80% of the British Isles (or more) is north of Watford.

Thatcher made many mistakes but lots of people, particularly in the mining communities, seem to think that everything was fine and dandy before bad old Maggie came along and ruined it. It's like she's been turned into some kind of cartoon villain.

PS....Class division has always existed, and to a certain extent always will.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Point 1/ That can be said of almost every prime minister we've ever had

Point 2/ 80% of the British Isles (or more) is north of Watford.

Thatcher made many mistakes but lots of people, particularly in the mining communities, seem to think that everything was fine and dandy before bad old Maggie came along and ruined it. It's like she's been turned into some kind of cartoon villain.

PS....Class division has always existed, and to a certain extent always will.

1. I'm not saying it hasn't been the case, just that the other poster said the majority voted for her - they didn't.

2. 80% - maybe geographically, but not population wise. Unless the rivers, forests and stones voted for maggie also - damn them.

 

[Sweep]

2 things - the majority didn't vote for her, but due to the FPTP nature of British politics, that equates to more seats in the HOC. She was also responsible for "creative" boundary changes.

I notice all your examples are unemployment situations that are still north of Watford. Just face it Winston Churchill unified a nation (and nations), Thatcher has divided them more than any other PM. Both were tories, so political affiliation doesn't matter.

Surely you can see that she divided a nation more than anyone since Cromwell/Charles II times. Not only geographically, but across class lines in the main.

Manufacturing industries were in decline in the 1970's and not just under the Tories. As I have said on here before, more pits closed under Harold Wilson than Mrs. Thatcher. The textile industry was decimated under Labour when they allowed Far East imports with no tariffs, but we all still want our cheap clothes. There isn't much manufacturing in the centre of London and most is north of Watford. The unemployment from the decline of manufacturing was always going to impact more north of Watford. By the time Mrs. T came to power we were used to it. We were the sick man of Europe because there were no customers for our outdated and over expensive products. The manufacturing that made losses were, in the main, nationalised to preserve jobs in the late 1960's and the taxpayer was paying to keep industry alive that couldn't compete - British Steel was losing £1 million a day in 1978.
As for creative boundary changes, that was one policy Tony Blair did reverse. Big style.
I can see that she divided a nation. But I do think the north / south thing is greatly exaggerated. I am not sure why Winston Churchill comes into this, but interestingly he does crop up in discussions about Margaret Thatcher. Maybe because they were both quintessentially British. I take your point that Mr. Churchill unified a nation in a way that Mrs. T didn't and in my mind Churchill was the greatest Briton that ever lived. But we were at war. People unify against a common enemy and it is worth remembering that Churchill lost the 1945 General Election to a landslide, within weeks of the end of the war. When asked about his defeat, to his eternal credit Churchill just replied " Well, they have had a hard time".

 

[Sweep]

Point 1/ That can be said of almost every prime minister we've ever had

Point 2/ 80% of the British Isles (or more) is north of Watford.

Thatcher made many mistakes but lots of people, particularly in the mining communities, seem to think that everything was fine and dandy before bad old Maggie came along and ruined it. It's like she's been turned into some kind of cartoon villain.

PS....Class division has always existed, and to a certain extent always will.

Just what I was trying to say. In a lot fewer words

 

[Sweep]

stones voted for maggie

I would never had Jagger down as a Thatcherite.