Baroness Thatcher Dead

MegaSteve said:
Yes, but they should be able to do their job without resorting to the need of out and out thuggery... Which, sadly, they seem incapable of doing...
Click to expand...

You're faced with a rioting crowd - how would you deal with it then?

If you need any visual stimulation just watch any news channel and see the Newcastle idiots taking on Police horses..... :o
 
But then on the other side, some idiot threw a concrete block off an over pass onto a taxi, and killed the driver.

Idiots on both sides?
 
SocketRocket said:
It genuinely saddens me to read posts like this. How can people use such broad terms like North/South to categorise people in this country.

I have met people from the four corners of this Earth and one thing I have learned is that the vast majority people on the planet are very similar, they get on with their day to day lives and do their best to put some bread on the table. IMHO it is completely pointless to dwell on things that happened in the past, we cant change them and in general were not responsible for them.

How can anyone tar all in the South with the same brush, you would think that they are all Bankers with big bonuses or city stockbrokers wheeling and dealing with others money. Come and look around, you will see the same man on the street working his gonads off to look after his family, Mothers that are faced with the conflicting pressure of work and care for the children.

Magaret Thatcher is a person of the past, most wont even have experienced that era and will not be able to understand how the people on the street; North and South were carried along with no real influence on the politic. Most what you call Southerners (what ever that means (maybe you could elaborate)) are getting on with their lives as best they can, how can you hold them responsible for the actions of politicians of almost 40 years past.

Move on and drop the bad blood, it is not real life or a way forward.
Click to expand...

Selective editting, perchance? You could have used the example of someone calling the left vile..............and more.
 
Foxholer said:
IMO, that is the question that has kept - and will keep - economists and advisers in work for years!

And it's really all down to personal opinion - imo of course. And personal opinion also drives, and is driven by, political leaning/doctrine.

As for Lady Thatcher, I believe she has been both credited with and castigated for far more than she deserved.

As an outside observer, I believe she was right for Britain - at the time. And remember that this was when Britain's industrial strength was demonstrated by the production of the might Morris Marina, the last (Austin) Princess, Triumph TR7 and Rover SD1!

The Poll Tax, though arguably a 'fairer' tax than the system it replaced, was a (predictable) disaster for her, though a triumph for protest and the legitimate swamping of incompetent bureaucracy!
Click to expand...

Maybe so, but no-one has still answered this question,really.
 
Sorry, but when did you see anyone else celebrate a death in this utterly vile way? I am sorry if I generalise and I can well understand your embarrassment if you class yourself as a left winger. Maybe instead of shooting the messenger, you should have a word with those who have let your political class and this country down this week. Or do you agree with "Rejoice, Rejoice" headlines in the Morning Star and "burn in hells fires" diatribe from George Galloway?
And whilst you are accusing me of generalisation, you may want to rethink your last comment. So everyone who works in a bank is bad are they? And by the way, no need to doff your cap to me. In spite of many posts on here, not all those who could see the benefit of Mrs Thatchers politics come from down south. I am a good northern lad. My ex father-in-law was a miner. I can't say I really benefitted from Mrs. Thatchers policies, but I believe in voting for what is right for the country rather than what is right for me.[/QUOTE]

If you bothered to read some of the posts properly, I have said on more that one occasion that I would never dance on someone's grave, and I don't agree with "celebrating" her demise. I do agree that she has a family and respect should be given to them.

However, she should not have a state/ceremonial funeral, neither should Blair. Only Churchill deserved this (a tory, and also a liberal, BTW). She also should not have her "legacies" whitewashed.

I am a left leaner, but my dad also taught me to think for myself, and whilst he has never crossed a picket line, and after spending a few years at fords in the 70's and the post office for 25 years, he was against a lot of the strikes.

I have admitted that a few of thatcher's policies i think were good, she was right to sink the "Belgrano". However, most right leaners on here are just major apologists, with just one saying that he was ardently against the poll tax, even though a tory.

Where is the balance from the apologists in this thread? No just a "well she got some things wrong", but what and how bad, firmly swept under the carpet.

When I said bankers, I meant the ones at the top, not the "workers". Read "the ascent of money" by Niall Ferguson, a very good read. But at the end of the day the top bankers took very large gambles, who is paying for it??????? I also blame the oil companies as well for what we are in, but they seem to get off scot-free.
 
Liverbirdie said:
Sorry, but when did you see anyone else celebrate a death in this utterly vile way? I am sorry if I generalise and I can well understand your embarrassment if you class yourself as a left winger. Maybe instead of shooting the messenger, you should have a word with those who have let your political class and this country down this week. Or do you agree with "Rejoice, Rejoice" headlines in the Morning Star and "burn in hells fires" diatribe from George Galloway?
And whilst you are accusing me of generalisation, you may want to rethink your last comment. So everyone who works in a bank is bad are they? And by the way, no need to doff your cap to me. In spite of many posts on here, not all those who could see the benefit of Mrs Thatchers politics come from down south. I am a good northern lad. My ex father-in-law was a miner. I can't say I really benefitted from Mrs. Thatchers policies, but I believe in voting for what is right for the country rather than what is right for me.
Click to expand...

If you bothered to read some of the posts properly, I have said on more that one occasion that I would never dance on someone's grave, and I don't agree with "celebrating" her demise. I do agree that she has a family and respect should be given to them.

However, she should not have a state/ceremonial funeral, neither should Blair. Only Churchill deserved this (a tory, and also a liberal, BTW). She also should not have her "legacies" whitewashed.

I am a left leaner, but my dad also taught me to think for myself, and whilst he has never crossed a picket line, and after spending a few years at fords in the 70's and the post office for 25 years, he was against a lot of the strikes.

I have admitted that a few of thatcher's policies i think were good, she was right to sink the "Belgrano". However, most right leaners on here are just major apologists, with just one saying that he was ardently against the poll tax, even though a tory.

Where is the balance from the apologists in this thread? No just a "well she got some things wrong", but what and how bad, firmly swept under the carpet.

When I said bankers, I meant the ones at the top, not the "workers". Read "the ascent of money" by Niall Ferguson, a very good read. But at the end of the day the top bankers took very large gambles, who is paying for it??????? I also blame the oil companies as well for what we are in, but they seem to get off scot-free.[/QUOTE]
I have bothered to read every post properly and I do know that you have made the point that you would not dance on anyone's grave or see a whitewash. I was not saying you were celebrating. I said the left had shown their true colours. In other words those that portray themselves as speaking for the left. If you read my post I said that this is not the working class I respect. I think those who are celebrating are from the left (why would anyone from the right celebrate?) and they are letting themselves, their ideology and our country down. These people, (Hatton, Galloway the leftwing press) claim they are speaking for you. If I was left leaning I would be pretty damed angry. If her funeral is held in a local parish church or she has the full honours it will be watched worldwide. These vile people will show our country in a very bad light to say the least. I am not happy about this. Are you?
Again if you have read my posts you will see that I am not a major apologist. I have pointed out what I consider to be the error of her ways ( lack of investment in areas where industry had closed for example). I am not going to be pushed into saying I was against the poll tax, because I wasn't. Please take the trouble to read my posts again on this. I don't want to repeat myself. I think I have provided a balanced view.
I am quite sure your dad taught you to think for yourself, as did mine. My point was that this cannot be the case with the majority of those who are celebrating. They are simply too young to know first hand and it is clear they have been given some misguided views. It is clear that Mrs. Thatcher has been a topic of hatred in many households over the past 23 years since she stepped down. See my post on the "party" in London. It shows bitterness and hatred to the degree that they have lost all moral judgement on decent human behaviour.
I think we all agree about the bankers at the top. However, this was not the fault of Mrs. Thatcher, nor indeed was any issue with the oil companies. If you get the chance try to watch "Hardtalk" on BBC catch up thingy with Morris Satchi. He describes very well how Mrs. Thatcher was horrified when he told her 12 months ago that 90% of all financial transactions are controlled by 5 banks. Mrs. Thatcher would never have allowed this.
 
Well as an aside I won't dance on her grave , there's many in South America who will though

Anyone's family who were "taken" by General Pinochet , whose tinpot regime was sold arms and supported by our own dear Maggie (a personal friend ) of the barbaric general
 
Sweep said:
I think we all agree about the bankers at the top. However, this was not the fault of Mrs. Thatcher, nor indeed was any issue with the oil companies. If you get the chance try to watch "Hardtalk" on BBC catch up thingy with Morris Satchi. He describes very well how Mrs. Thatcher was horrified when he told her 12 months ago that 90% of all financial transactions are controlled by 5 banks. Mrs. Thatcher would never have allowed this.
Click to expand...


Don't look at Maurice Saatchi for an honest appraisal. His advertising firm ran Maggie's campaign in 1979 and he has been a lifelong Tory.

Maggie started the ball rolling towards deregulation in 1986 when she liberalised the financial services regime in the UK. Then the big US banks moved a lot of the stuff that US law prohibited over here, and it is here where these casino investments flourished. New Labour continued that process, for sure, but Maggie started it.

It was part of her fundamentalist ideology of deregulation and unfettered free markets. And what happens when you free the markets? The big beasts start to consume the small ones and you get a small number of players dominating. It was entirely foreseeable, and was foreseen, that a small number of banks would eventually dominate, and the problem of Too Big To Fail (TBTF) resulted.
 
Ethan said:
Don't look at Maurice Saatchi for an honest appraisal. His advertising firm ran Maggie's campaign in 1979 and he has been a lifelong Tory.

Maggie started the ball rolling towards deregulation in 1986 when she liberalised the financial services regime in the UK. Then the big US banks moved a lot of the stuff that US law prohibited over here, and it is here where these casino investments flourished. New Labour continued that process, for sure, but Maggie started it.

It was part of her fundamentalist ideology of deregulation and unfettered free markets. And what happens when you free the markets? The big beasts start to consume the small ones and you get a small number of players dominating. It was entirely foreseeable, and was foreseen, that a small number of banks would eventually dominate, and the problem of Too Big To Fail (TBTF) resulted.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, even Ed Balls admitted on Sky News following the budget that Labour had made major mistakes with the banks and failed to regulate them for the way the modern economy works. Also, it was the big American banks that failed first. In all honesty, I don't think we can blame Mrs. T for a banking crisis that happened 19 years after she left office. It is generally accepted now across the political spectrum that the "big bang" was the right move at the right time. It made London the financial capital of the world and broke up the old boys network. If it needed reigning in later then that was the responsibility of later governments.
As for Saatchi, I agree. He was the Conservative advertising campaign manager and that probably makes him a Tory. That doesn't mean we shouldn't take what he says at face value when he is speaking about his interaction with Mrs. T. The Hardtalk programme is designed to be a vigorous examination. I think he gave a good and actually understated account of himself and very much talked down Saatchi and Saatchi's involvement. When he spoke of his conversations with Mrs. T he gave an insight into the way she thought, which I found quite interesting.
 
MegaSteve said:
Fella... I really think you need take off your rose tinted glasses... Saatchi "probably a Tory" :confused:...
Click to expand...
OK! Saatchi is absolutely, definately 100% a Tory. No doubt, no question. It is now written in stone. As I said. "I agree". Does that mean we don't listen to him when he talks of his interaction with Mrs. T? I only said I found it interesting. For example, he said that Mrs. T saw more benefits than most in people owning their own homes. She thought (according to Saatchi, so it might be a lie) if you owned your own home you were more likely to look after it, mow the lawn, trim the hedge etc therefore cutting down on anti social behaviour. Something I had not considered. No-one is saying she was right (not even Saatchi actually) but that was the way she thought.
 
Sweep said:
OK! Saatchi is absolutely, definately 100% a Tory.
Click to expand...

I'd put it nearer 110% myself ;)...

More seriously I did see the interview you talk of and yes it did give an insight into MaggieT's thinking on some of her policies... Also of interest was the relatively short interview of Lord McAlpine... Less interesting were the words of the buffoon that is Ken Clarke but I wouldn't expect any different...
 
Saatchi was Chairman of the Tories under IDS or Howard and now sits as a Tory in the House of Lords. No argument about his affiliations.

On the subject of Thacher's economic policy, it is certainly true that Blair and Brown followed a lot of the same policies. One reason is that they were desperate to show themselves as a party of business, but also because there was little point in being a party of big industry when there isn't any of that left. It is also rather difficult, politically and legislatively, to undo a lot of deregulation, so even if you disagree, which Blair and Brown did not, it can be easier to let it run and try to change things at the margins. A lot of the changes to the NHS introduced less than 3 weeks ago to allow private companies to come in is considered by legal experts impossible to reverse. Oh, and Maggie started that ball rolling too, with the introduction of the purchaser/provider split in the 1980s.
 
Ethan said:
Don't look at Maurice Saatchi for an honest appraisal. His advertising firm ran Maggie's campaign in 1979 and he has been a lifelong Tory.

Maggie started the ball rolling towards deregulation in 1986 when she liberalised the financial services regime in the UK. Then the big US banks moved a lot of the stuff that US law prohibited over here, and it is here where these casino investments flourished. New Labour continued that process, for sure, but Maggie started it.

It was part of her fundamentalist ideology of deregulation and unfettered free markets. And what happens when you free the markets? The big beasts start to consume the small ones and you get a small number of players dominating. It was entirely foreseeable, and was foreseen, that a small number of banks would eventually dominate, and the problem of Too Big To Fail (TBTF) resulted.
Click to expand...

So true Ethan... but Maggie lovers won't have it.
 
Heard a good one today.

Her funeral should have been privatised, put out to tender and awarded to the lowest bidder.

The fact Big Ben is being quietened is a total joke but somewhat Ironic given all the headlines of ding dong the witch is dead over the past week.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Crazyface
Gold "Galactic"
Replies
5
Views
222
IanM
IanM
Orikoru
AYRSHIRE THIS FRIDAY?
Replies
10
Views
820
Doon frae Troon
D
Slab
Online Shopping
2 3
Replies
56
Views
1K
irip
I
rudebhoy
Q for the car mechanics - track rod split
Replies
12
Views
589
RichA
R
Reemul
Trees Dying in the Garden
2
Replies
28
Views
4K
garyinderry
garyinderry
Top