Baroness Thatcher Dead

[AuburnWarrior]

She delayed peace as she wouldn't negotiate with terrorists. Bottom line really.

They allowed Adams to provide a quote yesterday. He tried to kill her. In fact, him and his mates killed innocent women and children - Manchester, London - the geography was immaterial, their message was clear.

You couldn't make it up!

 

[Liverbirdie]

As for Hillsborough - she was no more part of a cover up than I was! What interest did she have in covering up such a tragedy? It was the Police - pure and simple. (Quote)

Absolute tosh - it was on her watch, she was hardly likely to turn on her "stormtroopers" was she. An establishment cover up right from the very top. That's why its taking 23 to sort out a bit of justice.

 

[stevie_r]

"we should never concede more to those who threaten us with a gun than we would to those who promote their views through the ballot box".

gets my vote

 

[Ethan]

Now that I would like to hear, with 4 tours under my belt in some of the worst times in the late 70's and early 80's in sometimes deep C.O.P, I like to know how or why she delayed peace?

Next you'll be telling me that Adams and McGuinness don't have blood on their hands and should be listened to and trusted!

Don't be silly. I have never been a fan of Adams and McGuinness but things have changed a lot. Pity it hadn't happened a lot sooner.

In the late 70s, many ordinary Catholics were rather ambivalent about the IRA and their campaign, which was being conducted by a small group but was in political terms pretty weakly supported. You may recall that the British Army was sent in to protect the Catholics in Belfast, and were welcomed at first. Then the local politicians pushed for internment, and used the Army against the Catholics, which turned Catholic opinion. But a lot of animosity that had burned out by the end of the 70s.

Then the strategy of Ulsterisation began, which was intended to give more control to the RUC and UDR and isolate the problem as a NI one, to try and insulate the 'mainland' as much as possible. But many of the UDR and RUC guys were hand in glove with the loyalists and harassed Catholics far more than the English soldiers ever had, including collaborating on killings of Catholics, both IRA men and innocents. The hunger strikes also increased tensions and turned a lot of Catholics more against the Govt. The first election I ever voted in was when Bobby Sands stood, and I lived in the Fermanagh-South Tyrone constituency. Thatcher increased the tension and drove division far more than was necessary, and recruited many young Catholics for the IRA. She had learned nothing from internment and repeated the mistake.

By the way, most ordinary Catholics saw a big difference between English soldiers on one hand, and local UDR and/or Scottish (many of whom has a sectarian streak) on the other. I remember pulling my car up at checkpoints and thinking 'Oh no, its the Scots/UDR'. More harassment and abuse was likely then.

I have no idea what deep C.O.P is? Could you explain?

 

[Fish]

I've arrested Adams in the Dunville Park and been on early lifts for him and his side kick. So much blood on their hands as high ranking PIRA officers, pity INLA didn't get to them and do us all a favour when they were infighting. I remember the bombs here in Coventry and Birmingham and saw some horrific things over their which had come from the instructions of Adams on his own people.

Maggie was right not to deal with terrorists.

 

[AuburnWarrior]

As for Hillsborough - she was no more part of a cover up than I was! What interest did she have in covering up such a tragedy? It was the Police - pure and simple. (Quote)

Absolute tosh - it was on her watch, she was hardly likely to turn on her "stormtroopers" was she. An establishment cover up right from the very top. That's why its taking 23 to sort out a bit of justice.

I don't think so.

She wasn't responsible for everything that happened in the country. Her advisors would have kept certain things from her.

 

[stevie_r]

The first election I ever voted in was when Bobby Sands stood, and I lived in the Fermanagh-South Tyrone constituency. Thatcher increased the tension and drove division far more than was necessary, and recruited many young Catholics for the IRA.

Would you care to explain how a government not giving in to a convicted (on more than one occasion) terrorist is at fault? Are you saying that any nation should give in to the terrorists rather than increase tension?

 

[Fish]

Don't be silly. I have never been a fan of Adams and McGuinness but things have changed a lot. Pity it hadn't happened a lot sooner.

In the late 70s, many ordinary Catholics were rather ambivalent about the IRA and their campaign, which was being conducted by a small group but was in political terms pretty weakly supported. You may recall that the British Army was sent in to protect the Catholics in Belfast, and were welcomed at first. Then the local politicians pushed for internment, and used the Army against the Catholics, which turned Catholic opinion. But a lot of animosity that had burned out by the end of the 70s.

Then the strategy of Ulsterisation began, which was intended to give more control to the RUC and UDR and isolate the problem as a NI one, to try and insulate the 'mainland' as much as possible. But many of the UDR and RUC guys were hand in glove with the loyalists and harassed Catholics far more than the English soldiers ever had, including collaborating on killings of Catholics, both IRA men and innocents. The hunger strikes also increased tensions and turned a lot of Catholics more against the Govt. The first election I ever voted in was when Bobby Sands stood, and I lived in the Fermanagh-South Tyrone constituency. Thatcher increased the tension and drove division far more than was necessary, and recruited many young Catholics for the IRA. She had learned nothing from internment and repeated the mistake.

By the way, most ordinary Catholics saw a big difference between English soldiers on one hand, and local UDR and/or Scottish (many of whom has a sectarian streak) on the other. I remember pulling my car up at checkpoints and thinking 'Oh no, its the Scots/UDR'. More harassment and abuse was likely then.

I have no idea what deep C.O.P is? Could you explain?

I was serving when the hunger strikes were in full and I was in the Clonard and lower falls when the news came through that Sands had died. I had 2 empty seats on my plane back from that tour!

I'm sorry but PIRA was never a small group in the late 70's, their network was vast and was well supported financially from "other" countries, Noraid being a leading figure. A lot of us (HM Forces) were recruited by the UDR, tempted by large pay packets, I know most Catholics I spoke to welcomed this as we had different attitudes to some policing methods. The RUC would never had stood a chance without us there, it took 16 of us to walk around and protect only 2 of them and possibly more at times with crossover bricks if there had been hostilities the night before. I never met a cocky or confident RUC man, I didn't like some UDR though.

 

[Val]

Would you care to explain how a government not giving in to a convicted (on more than one occasion) terrorist is at fault? Are you saying that any nation should give in to the terrorists rather than increase tension?

She increased tension by her actions early on (interment etc) even before the mention of negotiating.

 

[stevie_r]

She increased tension by her actions early on (interment etc) even before the mention of negotiating.

val, do some research, check when Op Demetrius/ internment took place, compare that to when Mags came to power.

 

[Fish]

You could never of sat at the table at that time with Adams or McGuinness, both convicted criminals and knowingly high ranking officers and in my personal opinion, shouldn't be where they are now either.

Their idea of putting pressure on peace talks was to blow up innocents on the mainland, really diplomatic that!

 

[Kellfire]

I've arrested Adams in the Dunville Park and been on early lifts for him and his side kick. So much blood on their hands as high ranking PIRA officers, pity INLA didn't get to them and do us all a favour when they were infighting. I remember the bombs here in Coventry and Birmingham and saw some horrific things over their which had come from the instructions of Adams on his own people.

Maggie was right not to deal with terrorists.

You'll want to be VERY careful what you accuse Adams or anyone else of on a public forum or I don't think you'll be a member on this site for long.

 

[thecraw]

Some true colours coming out here.

 

[Val]

val, do some research, check when Op Demetrius/ internment took place, compare that to when Mags came to power.

Fair point mate, just reading Ethan's post and picking pieces out. I had the wrong timeline.

 

[Fish]

You'll want to be VERY careful what you accuse Adams or anyone else of on a public forum or I don't think you'll be a member on this site for long.

Why, is that a threat? What I have stated is not an accusation but a factual report from my time as a serving soldier over their when Adams & McGuinness were in their heyday of terror.

 

[Val]

Why, is that a threat? What I have stated is not an accusation but a factual report from my time as a serving soldier over their when Adams & McGuinness were in their heyday of terror.

Go easy mate, I know that era may get your emotions flying given our conversation at Spalding so take it easy.

 

[stevie_r]

You'll want to be VERY careful what you accuse Adams or anyone else of on a public forum or I don't think you'll be a member on this site for long.

I think you will find that McGuinness has publicly admitted his former IRA membership and his position of second in command of the IRA in Londonderry at the time of Bloody Sunday.

Gerry Adams has been asked to come clean on this matter many times by many people, including recently by Enda Kenny.

 

[Liverbirdie]

I don't think so.

She wasn't responsible for everything that happened in the country. Her advisors would have kept certain things from her.

I'm not saying she was responsible.

So maggie thatcher - a fearsome individual, acolytes living in fear would not have told her all that went on at Hillsborough. You want it both ways, great leader, hands on blah,blah. She visited Sheffield and the ground as well.

Naive?

 

[Fish]

I think you will find that McGuinness has publicly admitted his former IRA membership and his position of second in command of the IRA in Londonderry at the time of Bloody Sunday.

Gerry Adams has been asked to come clean on this matter many times by many people, including recently by Enda Kenny.

Exactly, both have been arrested for being members of an illegal organisation and as I stated, I have picked up Adams in the Dunville where he used to gather people and stand on his soap box gathering support, which wasn't hard to find around the Lower Falls. Whether he or they were convicted, I wouldn't know as we passed them over.

 

[AuburnWarrior]

I'm not saying she was responsible.

So maggie thatcher - a fearsome individual, acolytes living in fear would not have told her all that went on at Hillsborough. You want it both ways, great leader, hands on blah,blah. She visited Sheffield and the ground as well.

Naive?

Why involve her? If there's to be a cover up, why involve the PM? You'd only want a few individuals involved - surely?

Or are you just looking for as many people as possible to blame?