Ball moved by an outside agency

[Tiger]

Playing in a medal yesterday an incident occurred and it would be great to know the ruling for future reference.

Our 4th and 5th holes run in opposite directions with a few trees, rough and a sprinkling of gorse bushes separating the fairway.

I pushed my drive into the tree line and saw it bounce a couple of times. I walked to the spot I believed my ball had come to rest. There were no gorse bushes in the vicinity so it should have been in the rough. I saw a ball in the area I though mine had come to rest but meanwhile another player from the 5th tee approached. He reached the ball 20 yards before me and waved me away.

Continuing to look in the vicinity I found another ball about 6/7 yards away. This was a brand new Wilson. Meanwhile the other player had played his shot losing the ball he was addressing deep into a horse bush. He dropped and played again before walking off.

After my five minutes my ball had not been found. Both me and my playing partner were convinced we were searching the right area and were flummoxed my ball was not visible. We were pretty certain the player in question had played my ball and that the Wilson we had found was his tee shot. His behaviour after we found the Wilson, rushing and fluffing his shot fuelled my suspicions. But as I had not ID's my ball for 100% confirmation I returned to the tee.

I assume this is correct but wanted to check. Thanks

 

[sawtooth]

Perhaps a more innocent explanation. Your ball was plugged so impossible to spot?

 

[Foxholer]

Yes, correct. Rule 18.4

Unless known or virtually certain, you must assume it wasn't played by him.

Bad luck. I'd say your views of that gorse bush (and the player) might be different from now.

 

[chrisd]

Its always sensible to properly mark your ball so that you can identify it but it does also stop some eejit who sees your markings and doesn't decide to make it his ball, especially when he doesn't know what make/type of ball he started with

 

[Tiger]

Perhaps a more innocent explanation. Your ball was plugged so impossible to spot?

Unlikely to be plugged on our course as it just doesn't get boggy and drains really well. No gorse bush in sight either. My ball was marked up but didn't get close enough to check.It is possible that mine is still there but the rough isn't that long (couple of inches) and I was nowhere near the gorse. If I'm ever in doubt I hit a provisional. Anyway frustrating as it was glad I followed the rules correctly

 

[Colin L]

Meanwhile the other player had played his shot losing the ball he was addressing deep into a horse bush.

Brilliant typo, Tiger! I have visions of an artistic greenkeeper being let loose with a hedge trimmer to fashion one.

 

[Colin L]

More seriously, your problem given your very honest appraisal of what happened is you lost sight of your ball and cannot be "virtually certain" the other guy played it. For knowledge that an outside agency moved a ball, I reckon you have to see it happen - as did Steve Lowrie, all the spectators plus the TV audience in this incident http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uXZ3_A2nGs

This is just an example of what I think would be virtual certainty. You see your ball land on another fairway but it is out of sight while you walk towards it because of a dip in the ground. You come into sight of the fairway and no sign of your ball but there is another player heading on up the fairway from where your ball had been, or there is an urchin running away (or a seagull perhaps!). In short, there is no sign of the ball where you knew it had been and there is another piece of evidence to suggest how it might have disappeared.

 

[North Mimms]

Playing in a medal yesterday an incident occurred and it would be great to know the ruling for future reference.

Our 4th and 5th holes run in opposite directions with a few trees, rough and a sprinkling of gorse bushes separating the fairway.

I pushed my drive into the tree line and saw it bounce a couple of times. I walked to the spot I believed my ball had come to rest. There were no gorse bushes in the vicinity so it should have been in the rough. I saw a ball in the area I though mine had come to rest but meanwhile another player from the 5th tee approached. He reached the ball 20 yards before me and waved me away.

Continuing to look in the vicinity I found another ball about 6/7 yards away. This was a brand new Wilson. Meanwhile the other player had played his shot losing the ball he was addressing deep into a horse bush. He dropped and played again before walking off.

After my five minutes my ball had not been found. Both me and my playing partner were convinced we were searching the right area and were flummoxed my ball was not visible. We were pretty certain the player in question had played my ball and that the Wilson we had found was his tee shot. His behaviour after we found the Wilson, rushing and fluffing his shot fuelled my suspicions. But as I had not ID's my ball for 100% confirmation I returned to the tee.

I assume this is correct but wanted to check. Thanks

What if you had looked in the "horse bush" where he lost the disputed ball.
If you found a ball which bore the identical markings to your "lost" ball, would this be enough evidence that he had played yours in error?
And would you be allowed to legitimately replace and play it from the light rough without penalty?

 

[Colin L]

Yes, in my view, and a qualified yes. Yes, If Tiger had found his own ball in the horse bush that I would reckon to be clear evidence that the other guy had played it. So yes to playing it from where it had been without penalty but a qualified yes because he would not have been able to determine the exact spot and so would drop, not replace.

 

[Tiger]

thanks Colin and yes what a typo!!!! When the wind whistles through the 'horse' bushes it sounds like a whinnying mare