Ball limits; should they be changed?

[D-S]

It's significantly more than that for the tour pros and elite ams, for whom increased physical prowess has also contributed, who this proposed MLR is aimed at. Technology has also allowed them to unleash their power without losing significant distance or direction on off-centre strikes.

So if this distance gain is really big in tour pros and elite ams and not even important enough for even scratch players let alone bogey golfers to even consider adjusting slope and rating values, why would we consider reducing the distance the recreational golfer hits the ball.?
A compelling reason for confining any rollback to elite amateurs and tour pros.

 

[Hobbit]

I commented earlier on this idea. It doesn't achieve anything except making scoring ridiculously hard and giving big hitters even more of an advantage.
Also, no-one is going to want to play or watch a course setup that badly.

I commented earlier on this idea. It doesn't achieve anything except making scoring ridiculously hard and giving big hitters even more of an advantage.
Also, no-one is going to want to play or watch a course setup that badly.

So make it 6 inches deep, not 12 inches. Make the big hitters think about accuracy off some tees, e.g. hitting a 3 wood or driving irons. And there’s 18 holes to tinker with. For example, a 290yd par 4 with a minute green. A 600yd par 5 with a pond at 320yds. Narrow fairways on some holes, and wider fairways on others. I believe distance can be managed by increasing difficulty on some holes. That way exceptional play is rewarded but the blast it, find it and blast it again can be penalised more severely.

 

[Reemul]

Yeah I saw an interview with Rory this weekend, where he said the narrowing of many fairways at the Memorial was making his choice of club to use different, eg not a driver. There is not enough risk / reward at a lot of these courses but that does not mean the only risk should be heavy rough.

 

[Imurg]

Assuming you are speaking for your own golf, then you are already playing tees that are too long for you. Move forward.

And if youre already "forward"..?

A 15-20% shorter ball would improve the game for everyone, and be a win in every way.

(Not many courses don't have tees to suit everyone, but) other clubs/courses are available.
Other competitions are available.

Someone who already plays from the forward tees due to their ability
Now you want to, effectively, add 20 yards to every hole..
Please enlighten me as to how that improves their game, makes it more enjoyable and enables them to score better......

 

[Voyager EMH]

Last year I tried bashing a 1.62 Dunlop 65 with a Cobra F-Speed 460cc 9° stiff shaft. I think it was the longest drive I hit all year.

So roll-back is nothing new.

 

[wjemather]

Someone who already plays from the forward tees due to their ability
Now you want to, effectively, add 20 yards to every hole..
Please enlighten me as to how that improves their game, makes it more enjoyable and enables them to score better......

No. This isn't how it works. Earlier posts explain why.

 

[nickjdavis]

Given the science involved in all manner of golf equipment design, I would be shocked if the ball manufacturers were not able to design a golf ball that worked differently at higher swing speeds than lower. Give it properties that meant that the energy transfer was lower the harder it was hit. So the folks with the 120mph+ swing speeds are affected far more than the 95mph swing speed golfers. One ball....working for all golfers.

I would be equally shocked, given that roll-back of the ball has been a topic of discussion for several years now, if the ball manufacturers didn't already have prototype balls being belted by a robot in a lab somewhere.

 

[bobmac]

Unlike when we changed from the small ball to the large ball, the difference won't be readily apparent to all but the keenest observer. Tour pros and elite amateurs are frequently subject to the one-ball rule (and generally stick to one model anyway), so this won't affect how they choose a ball from one hole to the next. However, when the vast majority of amateurs happily play the ball they just found in the rough/hedge/pond, that creates a few problems with applying the proposed rule for everyone.

Elite amateurs who play in events where the MLR is adopted will simply play the new ball all the time.

Would an elite golfer be able to use a long ball when playing in local club comps after the proposed change?

As far as the rough is concerned, how about making the second cut at 250yds out, 4 inches deep...then at 300yds, 6 inches...350yds 8 inches deep?

 

[wjemather]

Would an elite golfer be able to use a long ball when playing in local club comps after the proposed change?

As far as the rough is concerned, how about making the second cut at 250yds out, 4 inches deep...then at 300yds, 6 inches...350yds 8 inches deep?

The restriction would only be for comps where the MLR is in place.

I don't understand the eagerness to butcher golf courses. Also, the deep stuff would be in the bogey golfer's landing zone for their second shot which, while not affecting the elite comp, wouldn't be much fun for everyone else for a few months.

 

[Crumplezone]

I don't really see pros annihilating courses and getting ridiculously low scores generally. So what if they're hitting a wedge to the green? That can be 150 yards which can be anything from an 8 to a 4 iron for mere mortals.

 

[bobmac]

The restriction would only be for comps where the MLR is in place.

So if the MLR is in place, the elite scratch golfer would have to play the shorter ball and the duffer off 1 could still use the long ball?

 

[Hobbit]

The restriction would only be for comps where the MLR is in place.

I don't understand the eagerness to butcher golf courses. Also, the deep stuff would be in the bogey golfer's landing zone for their second shot which, while not affecting the elite comp, wouldn't be much fun for everyone else for a few months.

C’mon, you can cut the grass you know. It doesn’t have to stay the same length every day of every week.

If a player is 5* off line but hitting 240yds it might still be on the fairway. The same 5* offline at 320yds might see you 10yds into the rough. And then there’s the opportunity to narrow up or widen fairways at specific yardages. It doesn’t have to narrow up the further up the fairway you go, it could even widen up, and it may be that you only want to tighten up one side of the fairway.

There‘s so many options on so many holes. You appear to have a very narrow view of what’s achievable with a little bit of imagination. Nor do you seem to recognise that the average score for most tournaments is a lot closer to level par.

 

[wjemather]

So if the MLR is in place, the elite scratch golfer would have to play the shorter ball and the duffer off 1 could still use the long ball?

No. The MLR would apply to everyone in the comp. It is not intended for use in anything but the highest level of competition.

 

[wjemather]

C’mon, you can cut the grass you know. It doesn’t have to stay the same length every day of every week.

If a player is 5* off line but hitting 240yds it might still be on the fairway. The same 5* offline at 320yds might see you 10yds into the rough. And then there’s the opportunity to narrow up or widen fairways at specific yardages. It doesn’t have to narrow up the further up the fairway you go, it could even widen up, and it may be that you only want to tighten up one side of the fairway.

There‘s so many options on so many holes. You appear to have a very narrow view of what’s achievable with a little bit of imagination. Nor do you seem to recognise that the average score for most tournaments is a lot closer to level par.

Grass doesn't grow overnight and cannot by slashed down overnight either. The course is affected for months.

Once again, this has nothing to do with scoring.

 

[wjemather]

I don't really see pros annihilating courses and getting ridiculously low scores generally. So what if they're hitting a wedge to the green? That can be 150 yards which can be anything from an 8 to a 4 iron for mere mortals.

Again - scoring is not one of the issues that this proposed MLR seeks to remedy. Needing to have holes over 600 yards in order to ensure longer hitters have more than a short-mid iron to the green is a problem. Courses simply cannot keep being extended in order to bring mid-long irons into play for more than lay-ups and 220+ yard par 3s.

 

[Alan Clifford]

So if the ball isn’t rolled back should the rating parameters be changed to reflect the “technology fuelled real world distance increases” ? Thereby requiring a re rating of all courses?

I don't believe the difference to ratings would be significant enough to justify it.

Would an elite golfer be able to use a long ball when playing in local club comps after the proposed change?

As far as the rough is concerned, how about making the second cut at 250yds out, 4 inches deep...then at 300yds, 6 inches...350yds 8 inches deep?

Or even a bunker. Tyrell Hatton had a moan not long ago about a bunker being in the wrong place. He felt that he had hit a good shot and should have been rewarded. Instead it went in the bunker. So not really a good shot.

 

[cleveland52]

Again - scoring is not one of the issues that this proposed MLR seeks to remedy. Needing to have holes over 600 yards in order to ensure longer hitters have more than a short-mid iron to the green is a problem. Courses simply cannot keep being extended in order to bring mid-long irons into play for more than lay-ups and 220+ yard par 3s.

Sooo, the USGA/RA want to change the game because they don't like what long hitters are hitting into the greens?

They fear that clubs will need more land twenty years from now?

 

[Captain_Black.]

My view is.
Roll back the ball for elite players & pro's.
There is no doubt that equipment has improved beyond all expectations.
The courses cannot get any longer & some of the longer hitters are hitting it way too far.
Some of today's pro's unlike years gone by are real athletes, putting in lots of muscle building & power training.
Mind you, in saying that.
The power players will still be belting it past the mere mortals even if the ball is rolled back.
But, on the whole, I think it would improve the pro game from a spectating point of view.

 

[wjemather]

Sooo, the USGA/RA want to change the game because they don't like what long hitters are hitting into the greens?

They fear that clubs will need more land twenty years from now?

Here's a quote from the proposal announcement:

"The USGA and The R&A set out to address the long-term trend of increased hitting distances and course lengthening that they believe threatens golf’s long-term sustainability and undermines the core principle that a broad and balanced set of playing skills should remain the primary determinant of success in golf."

 

[D-S]

Again - scoring is not one of the issues that this proposed MLR seeks to remedy. Needing to have holes over 600 yards in order to ensure longer hitters have more than a short-mid iron to the green is a problem. Courses simply cannot keep being extended in order to bring mid-long irons into play for more than lay-ups and 220+ yard par 3s.

If scoring is not the issue and, for example, a tournament is won with 4 under par who cares what they are hitting into the green?
If they aren’t scoring ridiculous amounts under par, why on earth would we care what clubs they are using?
Is this all about people wanting to see a pro having to hit a mid to long iron as a second shot every now and again?