Ball knocks another into the hole

[tobybarker]

Player A chips on and leaves it very close, having played 3. Player B chips on (4th shot), it races across the green and his ball knocks player A's ball into the hole. B's ball stops at the hole edge

Has A holed out for 3?
Does B incur any penalty as he could be judged to have been using the other ball as insurance.
What if B's ball had also then rolled to the hole (unlikely)? Does he replace it where it struck ball A, then tap in for a 5?

 

[rulefan]

A's ball must be replaced. No penalty to B. If his ball is holed, all well and good.

If it is known or virtually certain that an outside influence lifted or moved a player’s ball there is no penalty, and the ball must be replaced on its original spot (which if not known must be estimated).

If a player’s ball in motion accidentally hits any person or outside influence there is no penalty to any player.
Except if both balls were on the putting green before the stroke, the player gets the general penalty (two penalty strokes).

 

[srixon 1]

Reminds me of this. Not quite the same. The other guy (JB Holmes) has to replace his ball to where it was.

 

[wjemather]

'A' must replace their ball whether it gets knocked into the hole or not.

There is no penalty unless there was agreement to leave the ball in place to help player B, in which case both players would receive the general penalty. However, if there is a reasonable possibility that a ball left in place could be helpful, both players should ensure it is marked.

'B' plays from wherever their ball comes to rest; if deflected into the hole, they have holed out.

 

[tobybarker]

In a scramble, all chipping from say 30 yards... First player leaves it stone dead. Can it be left there as an implicit backstop (no verbal agreement is made)?

 

[mikejohnchapman]

In a scramble, all chipping from say 30 yards... First player leaves it stone dead. Can it be left there as an implicit backstop (no verbal agreement is made)?

I would say no - it should be marked. Simple test - if the ball stopped a foot short dead in line you would definitely mark it so what's different?

 

[rulie]

Are players in a scramble partners?

 

[tobybarker]

Are players in a scramble partners?

Yes

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Are players in a scramble partners?

Am I sensing this question is rather rhetorical in nature ?

 

[Deleted member 30522]

I would say no - it should be marked. Simple test - if the ball stopped a foot short dead in line you would definitely mark it so what's different?

Plus, why do you need a back stop in a scramble, if it hits the existing ball at best it's going to be in the same place, more likely it rolls away

 

[tobybarker]

not if the first ball is say, 4 inches to the side of the hole.. anyway, does the same rule apply..... You must replace the first ball and"play" the second ball where it ends up ?

yes, this is just a thought experiment......

 

[Colin L]

I would say no - it should be marked. Simple test - if the ball stopped a foot short dead in line you would definitely mark it so what's different?

That's impractical or would you put a maximum distance for such a requirement? Otherwise, every time the first player put a ball on the green the others would have to wait while he trudges maybe a couple of hundred yards to mark and lift his ball before they could play. Scrambles take long enough as it is. ?

 

[Neilds]

I find the idea of players, especially at our level, trying to use a ball as a backstop a bit strange. The hole is much bigger than the ball, aim at that instead. Put a ball on the green and ask the average golfer to hit it with an approach shot and they would miss 99.9% of the time.

 

[rulie]

Yes[/QUOTE

Am I sensing this question is rather rhetorical in nature ?

Not really. If they are partners and agree to leave the ball there, every partner incurs a penalty of two strokes (Rule 15.3a).

 

[Colin L]

I take a very relaxed view of scrambles. Given that the basis of the format is to give every side three mulligans on every shot, it doesn't seem worth getting too get fussy about something like this - or, for that matter, seeing three players in line astern the person putting. It's probably better to allow it to everyone than know that it will be going on to the disadvantage of those who are more scrupulous.

 

[tobybarker]

I find the idea of players, especially at our level, trying to use a ball as a backstop a bit strange. The hole is much bigger than the ball, aim at that instead. Put a ball on the green and ask the average golfer to hit it with an approach shot and they would miss 99.9% of the time.

If the ball is lying to the side, but close, to the hole, you have a chance of holing out OR rebounding off the ball into the hole.

 

[rulie]

I take a very relaxed view of scrambles. Given that the basis of the format is to give every side three mulligans on every shot, it doesn't seem worth getting too get fussy about something like this - or, for that matter, seeing three players in line astern the person putting. It's probably better to allow it to everyone than know that it will be going on to the disadvantage of those who are more scrupulous.

Since they are partners in that position, there are a lot of penalty strokes involved, not only for the putts but all the other shots!

 

[Neilds]

If the ball is lying to the side, but close, to the hole, you have a chance of holing out OR rebounding off the ball into the hole.

Also a chance that you might get hit by a meteorite but not very likely?

 

[tobybarker]

Also a chance that you might get hit by a meteorite but not very likely?

You've seen me putt, then