Ball in water where do you drop.

[Tashyboy]

Played today and on our 12th par three there is a pond to the front left side of the green. Anyway I smashed a 6 iron which landed to the side of the pond, rolled about 15 -20 yard around the side and far end of the pond then eventually rolled into the pond on the far side. At no point did the ball go directly over the pond, but ends up dropping in on the far side. We had a quick discussion about where I should drop. A PP said it had to be tee side of the pond as it is no nearer the hole. I said I thought it had to follow the ball flight/ path which would again be no nearer the hole. I eventually dropped the ball tee side of the pond and proceeded to pitch it into a storm drain and ended up blobbing the hole. So where is the correct drop area.

As with all Tashyboys stories, said PP then smashed his shot 10 yd over the pond and it also rolled back into the pond. He also said he has to drop tee side of the pond which he did.

The general opinion in the 19th was that even though we had gained no advantage where we had dropped, we had both dropped in the wrong place.

Any opinions greatly appreciated.

 

[louise_a]

you drop leaving point of entry between the ball and the pin and not nearer the hole so I would have thought you dropped in the correct place.

 

[fundy]

what stakes were marking the pond?

 

[louise_a]

I was assuming yellow stakes.

 

[bobmac]

The rules are different for red and yellow stakes.
Reds are normally rivers (Lateral) and yellows are normally ponds

 

[full_throttle]

Played today and on our 12th par three there is a pond to the front left side of the green. Anyway I smashed a 6 iron which landed to the side of the pond, rolled about 15 -20 yard around the side and far end of the pond then eventually rolled into the pond on the far side. At no point did the ball go directly over the pond, but ends up dropping in on the far side. We had a quick discussion about where I should drop. A PP said it had to be tee side of the pond as it is no nearer the hole. I said I thought it had to follow the ball flight/ path which would again be no nearer the hole. I eventually dropped the ball tee side of the pond and proceeded to pitch it into a storm drain and ended up blobbing the hole. So where is the correct drop area.

As with all Tashyboys stories, said PP then smashed his shot 10 yd over the pond and it also rolled back into the pond. He also said he has to drop tee side of the pond which he did.

The general opinion in the 19th was that even though we had gained no advantage where we had dropped, we had both dropped in the wrong place.

Any opinions greatly appreciated.

point of entry? back right after rolling down.... drop other side of hazard, keeping the point of entry between your dropping point and the flag

 

[Tashyboy]

what stakes were marking the pond?

Red stakes, the PP who put his ball into the pond when it rolled back in made a point to himself about this, but did not explain the meaning of red stakes.

[h=2]Rule 26-1[/h][h=3]Ball Rolling Back into Water Hazard[/h]Q.My ball landed on the putting green side of a pond in front of the green, but rolled back into the pond. Where do I drop a ball to play my next stroke?
A.The answer depends on the type of hazard the ball rolled into. Under penalty of one stroke, if the ball entered into a water hazard, (yellow stakes and/or lines) or a lateral water hazard (red stakes and/or lines), the player may play a ball from as near as possible to where the original was last played (Rule 26-1a), or drop a ball behind the hazard keeping the point where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard between himself and the hole (Rule 26-1b). Under this option, the player must drop the ball behind the water hazard (see Decision 26-1/1.5). An additional option available only for a ball in a lateral water hazard is to drop the ball within two club-lengths of the point where the ball last crossed the margin of the lateral water hazard or a point equidistant from the hole on the opposite margin of the hazard from where the ball last crossed into the hazard. However, it may not be dropped nearer the hole. If the player can drop the ball meeting the conditions of this last option, it may be dropped on the putting green side of the water hazard. Decision 26-1/15 illustrates the options under this Rule.

does this clear things up.

 

[fundy]

Red stakes, the PP who put his ball into the pond when it rolled back in made a point to himself about this, but did not explain the meaning of red stakes.

This makes a massive difference. Red stakes, mean its a lateral hazard, which gives an extra drop option, which is 2 club lengths from the point of entry (not nearer the hole) which can often mean it is possible to drop on the far side, this would not be possible if yellow stakes

http://www.randa.org/RulesEquipment/Rules/QuickGuide/Relief-Situations-and-Procedures/Water-Hazards

 

[rulefan]

which landed to the side of the pond, rolled about 15 -20 yard around the side and far end of the pond then eventually rolled into the pond on the far side. At no point did the ball go directly over the pond, but ends up dropping in on the far side.

Is this anything like an extreme version of the situation?

 

[duncan mackie]

This makes a massive difference. Red stakes, mean its a lateral hazard, which gives an extra drop option, which is 2 club lengths from the point of entry (not nearer the hole) which can often mean it is possible to drop on the far side, this would not be possible if yellow stakes

http://www.randa.org/RulesEquipment/Rules/QuickGuide/Relief-Situations-and-Procedures/Water-Hazards

Gives 2 extra options...not one.

As with all water hazard situations the key is to first establish the point on the margin of the hazard that the ball last crossed - this is your reference point for all that follows.

 

[backwoodsman]

Given Tashy's description, it seems to me that his drop behind (green-side) the pond (keeping point of entry in line etc) was a valid drop despite what his mates in the 19th might think.

If it was red stakes then there could be greenside options under the 2 club lengths options for laterals - but have to say, given his description, I'm struggling to envisage one that is not nearer the hole. But possible of course.

 

[Tashyboy]

Is this anything like an extreme version of the situation?

Rule fan that is that is as near as damnit, it might seem odd knowing the ball has gone all around the pond and seeing it but the hole is called Hallam heights and is raised about 30-40 yd above the pin so you see everything that goes off.
Thanks for all the advice boys, coz it has cleared a lot up.

 

[Colin L]

Given Tashy's description, it seems to me that his drop behind (green-side) the pond (keeping point of entry in line etc) was a valid drop despite what his mates in the 19th might think.

If it was red stakes then there could be greenside options under the 2 club lengths options for laterals - but have to say, given his description, I'm struggling to envisage one that is not nearer the hole. But possible of course.

The margin of the hazard would have to be curved around the hole in such a way that every point on it was no further from the hole than the point of entry - minimally the circumference of a circle centred on the hole. Unlikely?

 

[rulefan]

Rule fan that is that is as near as damnit, it might seem odd knowing the ball has gone all around the pond and seeing it but the hole is called Hallam heights and is raised about 30-40 yd above the pin so you see everything that goes off.
Thanks for all the advice boys, coz it has cleared a lot up.

The reference point is where the ball went into the water. As it is marked red, all the options are available including dropping the the opposite side of the WH (ie almost directly on the line of the arrow).