Ball in water and bunker.

[Marc Cools]

On my exam last saturday I had the following question: A ball touches the sand of the bunker and part of the ball is also lying in the water hazard. Can you ground your club in the sand to play the ball? True or false + decision nr.

I did not find the decision but I know that there is a decision that states that the ball is in the water and not in the bunker in this case. So, I thought, if it is not in the bunker you can touch the sand.

Who knows the answer (I don't)?

 

[D4RK1]

So you don't mean standing water in the bunker?

You can't ground your club in any hazard. I've never seen a bunker that meets a water hazard.

 

[duncan mackie]

On my exam last saturday I had the following question: A ball touches the sand of the bunker and part of the ball is also lying in the water hazard. Can you ground your club in the sand to play the ball? True or false + decision nr.

I did not find the decision but I know that there is a decision that states that the ball is in the water and not in the bunker in this case.

your answer lies in the wording of 13-4; and may best be understood if you simply looked at the situation where the ball lies on the grass edge of a bunker and is not, therefore, in the bunker. Would you be happy to ground your club in the bunker when playing this shot?

The answer to the question posed would follow from this.

 

[Fyldewhite]

Interesting scenario.

At first I thought surely as the ball is in the bunker (Def: A ball is in a bunker when it lies in or any part of it touches the bunker) then the status of the water hazard is irrelevant. Looking further though there is this decision .........26/1.5 Status of Ball That Touches Water Hazard and Another Part of the Course.......which effectively says the ball would be considered to be in the water hazard. Following this then logically the ball isn't in the bunker and you have the same situation described by Duncan despite the ball touching the sand. So now I'm thinking yes, you can ground the club, as you are not grounding it in the water hazard. Is this right Duncan?

 

[duncan mackie]

Interesting scenario.

At first I thought surely as the ball is in the bunker (Def: A ball is in a bunker when it lies in or any part of it touches the bunker) then the status of the water hazard is irrelevant. Looking further though there is this decision .........26/1.5 Status of Ball That Touches Water Hazard and Another Part of the Course.......which effectively says the ball would be considered to be in the water hazard. Following this then logically the ball isn't in the bunker and you have the same situation described by Duncan despite the ball touching the sand. So now I'm thinking yes, you can ground the club, as you are not grounding it in the water hazard. Is this right Duncan?

that would be my conclusion

 

[Marc Cools]

I've never seen a bunker that meets a water hazard.

A lake with a bunker coming out of it and then a green. I've seen it many times. Last time at the Portugal Masters hole 18 for instance.

 

[D4RK1]

Kool. I'm off to Portugal for a golfing holiday in 3 weeks. Looks like I'll see one soon enough.

I don't understand this rule at all though. At least I won't/wouldn't ground my club so won't be breaking the rules.

 

[Imurg]

Interesting scenario.

At first I thought surely as the ball is in the bunker (Def: A ball is in a bunker when it lies in or any part of it touches the bunker) then the status of the water hazard is irrelevant. Looking further though there is this decision .........26/1.5 Status of Ball That Touches Water Hazard and Another Part of the Course.......which effectively says the ball would be considered to be in the water hazard. Following this then logically the ball isn't in the bunker and you have the same situation described by Duncan despite the ball touching the sand. So now I'm thinking yes, you can ground the club, as you are not grounding it in the water hazard. Is this right Duncan?

that would be my conclusion

I'm struggling with this......
Surely the ball is either in the bunker or in the water hazard - either way you can't ground your club....what am I missing?

 

[Fyldewhite]

I'm struggling with this......
Surely the ball is either in the bunker or in the water hazard - either way you can't ground your club....what am I missing?

In the real world it is actually in both but the decision says that in the rules it counts as being in the water hazard so that is the rule that applies. In that case you cannot ground your club in the hazard but as you would be grounding outside the (water) hazard that would be allowed. The fact that it's a bunker is ignored as the ball is deemed to be in the water hazard not the bunker.

 

[Colin L]

I'm struggling with this......
Surely the ball is either in the bunker or in the water hazard - either way you can't ground your club....what am I missing?

Yes, you can only proceed on the basis that your ball is in one or the other. If the ball is in the water hazard, it's not in the bunker in which case you can ground your club in the bunker. !3-4 only prohibits touching the ground of a bunker when the ball lies in that bunker. The reverse is the case, if a ball is in a bunker next to a water hazard, none of the prohibited actions listed in 13-4 applies to the water hazard.

In the case in hand, Decision 26/1.5 tells us to resolve the dilemma of a ball touching both by deeming the ball to be in the water hazard which means you can ground your club in the bunker.

 

[Imurg]

Gotcha!
Cheers