Are We Being Too Technical?

[MadAdey]

Just a little post wondering at times we are going too indepth when we are not hitting the ball well. I read posts on here where players are having problems with their swing, but I do wonder if it is something far more simple that is the problem rather than the technical in depth answer. There are a lot of forumers that have a good understanding of the golf swing and do give out some great advice to people that are struggling.This thread has come about after taking a trip to the range with my mate today. He plays off 7 and has been really struggling to hit his driver the last few rounds and it is just going from bad to worse the more he tries to sort it. So off to the range we go for a little mess around and see if we can find the problem. He tells me that he feels he is getting stuck on his back foot and not getting his hands through the ball at impact and it is causing him to spray the ball all over the place. So he has a warm up with his 6 iron and is hitting it well. Now time to get the driver out. He normally hits a nice push-draw shot. First couple of balls he just pushes out to the right. He then starts to hit a pull- fade and that then moves into a pull-draw as he tries to correct what he is doing. Yes he was correct in saying he is not transfering his weight through the ball at impact and it just going anywhere. I get him to set up to the ball and I look at his ball position. Straight away something is obvious.....his ball is a long way back in his stance for his driver. So I put a club down between his legs to show him this. He then gets the ball further forward in his stance and after a few shots...hey presto he is hitting a nice gentle push-draw, like he normally does. My point here is that he was trying to correct his weight transfer, altering his hands through impact and changing the plane of his swing. None of those things worked as it was something so simple it was too obvious to realise yourself. All that happened was he made things worse by messing with a swing that was not the problem, it was his address position.What I am trying to say is next time you are having problems with your swing, it may be something very simple. Check it out before messing with what may be a good swing.

 

[MadAdey]

Just a little post wondering at times we are going too indepth when we are not hitting the ball well. I read posts on here where players are having problems with their swing, but I do wonder if it is something far more simple that is the problem rather than the technical in depth answer. There are a lot of forumers that have a good understanding of the golf swing and do give out some great advice to people that are struggling.This thread has come about after taking a trip to the range with my mate today. He plays off 7 and has been really struggling to hit his driver the last few rounds and it is just going from bad to worse the more he tries to sort it. So off to the range we go for a little mess around and see if we can find the problem. He tells me that he feels he is getting stuck on his back foot and not getting his hands through the ball at impact and it is causing him to spray the ball all over the place. So he has a warm up with his 6 iron and is hitting it well. Now time to get the driver out. He normally hits a nice push-draw shot. First couple of balls he just pushes out to the right. He then starts to hit a pull- fade and that then moves into a pull-draw as he tries to correct what he is doing. Yes he was correct in saying he is not transfering his weight through the ball at impact and it just going anywhere. I get him to set up to the ball and I look at his ball position. Straight away something is obvious.....his ball is a long way back in his stance for his driver. So I put a club down between his legs to show him this. He then gets the ball further forward in his stance and after a few shots...hey presto he is hitting a nice gentle push-draw, like he normally does. My point here is that he was trying to correct his weight transfer, altering his hands through impact and changing the plane of his swing. None of those things worked as it was something so simple it was too obvious to realise yourself. All that happened was he made things worse by messing with a swing that was not the problem, it was his address position.What I am trying to say is next time you are having problems with your swing, it may be something very simple. Check it out before messing with what may be a good swing.

I apolologise how this has come out as I am at work and for some reason it does not put things into paragraphs........

 

[Heidi]

I apolologise how this has come out as I am at work and for some reason it does not put things into paragraphs........

lol - i like a paragraph...but i managed to follow it

thing is - its usually something about the original set up thats wrong - Grip, aim, stance, posture - and rarely the actual swing - or god forbid, the club!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Very good advice providing you know what you are looking for. Granted you and your mate are pretty competent golfers but in my experience, a lot of people who self diagnose, including me, fix fault A and then create fault B.

I've gone to a very simple swing based on Jim Hardy's Plane Truth and its a one place thing. Much less moving parts and much simpler in terms of technique. If I hit a bad shot now it is more than likely I haven't got the club travelling properly (feels like its going left and not down the target line) or I have slid the hips and not spun then fast enough. So far 8/10 bad shots are down to those two elements. My swing isn't correct in terms of what the pro wants me to do (too shallow etc) but its functional.

The point is that I don't go through a list of maybes anymore. If I don't hit it great and I don't feel the club is travelling in the wrong direction and that I've made a full hip turn I won't fiddle with it. I'll get the ball round as best I can on the day and then seek advice. Sometimes it only takes a look a the set up, or a couple of shots to spot. I guess I'm lucky that the guy I use at the local range will normally give me five minutes between lessons just to have a look and so it doesn't cost anything to fix it. On the other hand I'm a great believer in getting a trained eye to look at it if the problems are ongoing in the same way I'd trust a mechanic to look at my car if it wasn't working and I'd checked the basics (battery, oil etc)

 

[Hobbit]

To answer the question, yes.

If you were throwing a piece of paper into a bin would you hold your hand just so, drawing your arm back till your elbow pointed... I guess you get the picture. More often than not you hit the bin if you do it without all the thinking stuff. Now if you concentrate on all the arm waving thingy, thumb down etc you'll miss the bin more than you hit it.

If you have the basics sorted, just hit the damn ball and then learn from where it goes. There's more than 1 way to skin a cat... Jim Furyk, Nick Price and a whole host of others do it a little different from the 'taught' norm.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

The fix for me is always simple - always. Sometimes it takes me a while to work it out but I don't like to make kneejerk reactions to a bad round - bad rounds happen. I think a lot of people will go looking to fix something after just one bad round and end up making it worse. I won't make drastic changes on my own but will think back to lessons and work through the basics, if I can't do that I'll get a lesson but even then, the fix is usually simple

 

[kid2]

I was guilty of getting way too mechanical last year to the point where it nearly broke me.....
I strived to have a very good swing and was always conscious of where i was at certain positions......

Iv never had lessons and i play 0ff 16 at the moment...I started playing the game 3 years ago off 21 but have come a long way from the chap that used to slice the ball...
Being self thought i always have issues but i have to say a big thank you to Bob Mac and James for all the help they gave me....
Through trial and error iv now got a nice one plane swing and im learning to come at the ball from the inside which is nearly there....I have the odd weird one but im starting to realize why i miss in a certain direction....

I no longer get technical about my swing....Its definitely getting more consistent.......I did have a spell of the shanks also and i know why they were happening as well which i have now rid myself of......

I think we do become to technical but in a way you have to know why something is wrong so that it can be rectified.....Otherwise its just a vicious circle!

 

[Ian_S]

Absolutely yes.

For all the backswing, downswing and follow through that we do, the only thing that matters is that split second where the club face makes contact with the ball. For a split-second and no more you need a club that is moving straight and square.

I've found that most problems you can diagnose by understanding the physics of golf ball flight and taking a slow motion swing to see what you are doing with your clubhead. Obviously, making your corrections repeatable isn't as simple as that (which is why most of us play off big numbers) but in essence that's all there is to it.

 

[Dave B]

I know exactly what is wrong with my swing, it's crap :fore:

But being serious my playing partner is always anylising his swing and making compensations. He's a competent golfer and if I could putt like him I'd be dangerous however he is let down by the constant changes to his swing and in reality he would be better off and booking a course of lessons to rebuild his swing by going back to basics.

One thing that too many of us do is anylise our swings thinking we have it sorted when in reality we are often just covering up the real issue. Little things like buying a draw biased driver, offset clubs or aiming left to make sure the ball goes straight.

There are so many compensations and so many technicalities that affect the swing it can be very difficult to pinpoint the underlying issues.

I've been suffering with a shoulder issue over the last few months and started to fade/slice the ball for what seemed to be no reason at all. I couldn't work it out, my playing partner couldn't work it out and during a driver fitting the pro after watching me for 15 minutes highlighted that at address I was dropping my right shoulder and tilting it inwards towards the ball. By simply pulling my right shoulder back slightly I was swinging on the inside and hitting the ball straight as a die.

It's the little things that can make all the difference and at the end of the day most of us bault at paying £15-30 for a half hour lesson that will sort the issues out, however how many pro's don't have coaches.

Golf is a simple game however the technicalities make it very complicated. If you simplify everything and play a simple game it's not that complicated however add stack and tilt, ball flight laws, (old and new), and it's very easy to end up with a head full of magic.

 

[chris661]

Undoubtedly yes.

Golf is a simple game, hit it find it and hit it again until the hole swallows the ball.
Last year I tried a pro with good recommendations from folk but he was WAY WAY to technical for me. Went back to one I had used previously and he told me to worry about three things, stance width, alignment and keeping my right knee flexed. If I do those I tend to hit the ball pretty well.

 

[TheJezster]

I'd say so, yes.

I've got to be honest and say much of what is written on here about swing plane, elbows here, arms there etc I really dont understand. I'm not sure that I really want to either! Why? Well I just stand where it feels right to stand and swing the club to hit the ball and watch it fly (or not, depending on what happens)

I come from a fairly active sporting background, I've always had good hand/eye coordination from squash & badminton so it hasnt been that hard taking golf up.

I just feel that if I analysed my swing to the nth degree I would end up screwing it up! I realise this is me though and this works for many many people so I'm not knocking it in the slightest. It just wouldnt work for me. I much prefer to do what I feel is natural and take it from there. If something was happening all the time, yes I would take lessons to see what was wrong. I did last year with the woods, had an hour and a half wood lesson and this was awesome! I really enjoyed the session and it thoroughly helped me. The pro didnt start messing around with my swing though, he said my plane was great and just keep doing that, but showed me how I was open faced when hitting the ball and showed me how to stand and turn my arms over to correct it.

My take on it is largely like Hobbit above I guess. For me I dont think about my swing or analyise it too much, I just do it. It's working ok so far and I dont really have the motivation to go down to the range very often to practice so am happy to play every weekend, which is improving my game.

All that said, I'd give a putting lesson a go to see if I could add to what I'm doing currently and analyise that a bit more maybe, but can you be taught to read a green better? I'd be interested to hear peoples views on that, especially those who have had lessons.

Cheers

 

[chris661]

All that said, I'd give a putting lesson a go to see if I could add to what I'm doing currently and analyise that a bit more maybe, but can you be taught to read a green better? I'd be interested to hear peoples views on that, especially those who have had lessons.

I would say, IMO, that reading greens only really comes with experience. A lesson for putting is a great investment in my eyes as it will ensure the basics and the stroke are in good order.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

All that said, I'd give a putting lesson a go to see if I could add to what I'm doing currently and analyise that a bit more maybe, but can you be taught to read a green better? I'd be interested to hear peoples views on that, especially those who have had lessons.

I would say that of all the aspects of the game, putting would be the one you'd least want to get too technical about

 

[thecraw]

www.instinctivegolf.co.uk


great stuff.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I went through a summer three years ago stuck on the practice ground in pursuitof a decent swing. I'd had lessons and knew where club was throughout and initially was striping it ball after ball. Rather than getting out regularly and enjoying I strove harder and harder to get it perfect. By the end of the summer my swing was shot, so was the confidence and when I did go out in comps I couldn't score and had way too many toughts in my head.

These days I still have lessons as I dont have a natural golfing ability but it is much more a case of KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) and more a fix than an overhaul. I got out with a load more confidence in the ability and technique I do have rather than trying to get something I don't. Just ask Hawkeye (or Bash and SUndance) who play with me regularly and they will all say that since December and stripping it back to this simeple one piece swing and not worrying about it technically I'm hitting it as well as I have done. Granted the handicap is still not showing the net results although a cut from 13.3 to 12 is a step in the right direction

 

[Foxholer]

I'm a believer in getting the basics right and letting 'natural talent' take care of the rest. Possibly, certain things (not necessarily faults) can be improved, but I've found swings naturally return to a particular style anyway. Not being a professional, so not being able to devote sufficient time to make a 'new' swing feel natural, I stick with whatever I have.

There'll be 'bad swing' days, but unless these are constant, I'll just keep making sure the basics are correct and reduce tension in my swing - which has a touch of out-to-in from dodgy balance.

Putting should also be natural rather than mechanical. Green reading is mainly experience, but I've seen the improvements that the Aimpoint system/method can make - not used it myself though.

 

[JustOne]

Are we being too technical?


NO.

Most players know sweet f/a about the swing, what they think they know they either don't do, don't do properly or it's wrong. If I put you in the jungle with a machete could you find your way home without a compass? No, probably not...... knowing which way to go is paramount to achieveing your goal/target/destination... you firstly have to want to get there.


As alluded to by other posters, you need the basics... but people don't even do/follow/know the basics, but then who wants to???

Those that want to will and those that don't, wont.

You can never have too much information for those willing to learn.




In regards to your friend you are seemingly applying a quick fix, a simple mistake on his part... but how so? Without prior knowledge/understanding you'd never have come to that conclusion.. it's only simple as you found a solution rather like a chef realising a dish only needs salt whilst the cook stands there bewildered.

 

[Imurg]

You can never have too much information for those willing to learn.

Up to a point - until your head's full.
By then you're thinking about so many different things that you don't know if you're crapping or farting!

Too much thinking kills many a golf swing.

 

[JustOne]

Up to a point - until your head's full.
By then you're thinking about so many different things that you don't know if you're crapping or farting!

Too much thinking kills many a golf swing.

What exactly are you thinking about if you are only doing a handful of RIGHT things?




If someone is filling their head they should take a look at what they're doing, and perhaps swallow their pride and do it properly. You can't complain when it's YOU to blame

 

[Imurg]

What exactly are you thinking about if you are only doing a handful of RIGHT things?

If someone is filling their head they should take a look at what they're doing, and perhaps swallow their pride and do it properly. You can't complain when it's YOU to blame

Alignment
Stance
Ball position
Grip
Knee flex
Balance
Spine Angle
ClubFace angle
Hips
Knees
Shoulders
Swing Plane
Swing Length
Or whatever it is that makes up a swing........


And that's all before you've had a chance to swing the club towards the ball....

Too much.......:fore: