Are there any real engineers out there...?

[Hobbit]

I've been interviewing engineers for about 12 year but the last couple of years have been a little tough. I can get any number of engineers with great qualifications but can they follow instructions or wire a mains plug?

Remember one of the basic bits of advice from school? READ the question!! The final question we pose to, supposedly, qualified/experienced engineers is a practical. Read the instructions then wire the mains plug and calculate what fuse needs to be fitted. Only 1 out of the last 20+ engineers I've interviewed can wire a plug, and less than half read the instructions and strip the other end of the cable to the right lengths for each conductor. As for what fuse... half of them would be dead, or have killed someone.

Only 1 engineer knew that the cut away next to the earth terminal was so that you can put a loop in the earth wire so that it is the last wire to pull free when the cable receives an almighty tug, e.g. someone trips over the cable.

Boolean algebra, De Morgan's theorem, cascade effect or programming a lift to respond logically - no problem, but wiring a plug

What on earth(no pun intended) has happened to decent apprenticeships that give engineers the basic skills rather than throwing them in at some fluffy fancy level?

 

[Deleted member 1740]

I've been interviewing engineers for about 12 year but the last couple of years have been a little tough. I can get any number of engineers with great qualifications but can they follow instructions or wire a mains plug?

Remember one of the basic bits of advice from school? READ the question!! The final question we pose to, supposedly, qualified/experienced engineers is a practical. Read the instructions then wire the mains plug and calculate what fuse needs to be fitted. Only 1 out of the last 20+ engineers I've interviewed can wire a plug, and less than half read the instructions and strip the other end of the cable to the right lengths for each conductor. As for what fuse... half of them would be dead, or have killed someone.

Only 1 engineer knew that the cut away next to the earth terminal was so that you can put a loop in the earth wire so that it is the last wire to pull free when the cable receives an almighty tug, e.g. someone trips over the cable.

Boolean algebra, De Morgan's theorem, cascade effect or programming a lift to respond logically - no problem, but wiring a plug

What on earth(no pun intended) has happened to decent apprenticeships that give engineers the basic skills rather than throwing them in at some fluffy fancy level?

Being on pricework and target bonuses doesn't help.

The "get it done as quick as you can" attitude doesn't help neither.

 

[CMAC]

I've been interviewing engineers for about 12 year but the last couple of years have been a little tough. I can get any number of engineers with great qualifications but can they follow instructions or wire a mains plug?

Remember one of the basic bits of advice from school? READ the question!! The final question we pose to, supposedly, qualified/experienced engineers is a practical. Read the instructions then wire the mains plug and calculate what fuse needs to be fitted. Only 1 out of the last 20+ engineers I've interviewed can wire a plug, and less than half read the instructions and strip the other end of the cable to the right lengths for each conductor. As for what fuse... half of them would be dead, or have killed someone.

Only 1 engineer knew that the cut away next to the earth terminal was so that you can put a loop in the earth wire so that it is the last wire to pull free when the cable receives an almighty tug, e.g. someone trips over the cable.

Boolean algebra, De Morgan's theorem, cascade effect or programming a lift to respond logically - no problem, but wiring a plug

What on earth(no pun intended) has happened to decent apprenticeships that give engineers the basic skills rather than throwing them in at some fluffy fancy level?

didnt know that either- very useful, will check all plugs this weekend:thup:


what kind of engineers do you hire and what industry if you dont mind me asking?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Skills have been diluted with more "box changing" with manufactures as opposed to competent fault finding ( within the comms world )

Was told is was because less people are doing technical degrees - maths , physics etc and doing more business or art orientated degrees

 

[harpo_72]

What type of engineer are you looking for? The problem in this country everyone is an engineer. The term covers grease monkey, technicians, skilled craftsman ... And then the guys with B.Eng degrees ... So what are you looking for?

 

[Paperboy]

I got that wrong in my interview for my apprenticeship, almost 17 years ago. Still couldn't tell you but could find an internet page or look at another plug to find out.

But in my job that's someone else's job to do/check. Will be starting too look for new jobs soon so will make sure I know how to wire a plug from now :thup:

 

[bozza]

See I'd class myself as the opposite of most the people you have interviewed, poor qualifications from school and college.

Ended up with a labouring job at a engineering company my dad was works manager at and when it was quiet he got me paired up with some of the time served toolmakers who taught me a lot of how to machine stuff and basically do a tool makers job.

If I apply for a job in this type of engineering they instantly dismiss me because I don't have the qualifications for it on a bit of paper even though I could do just as good as job if not better than someone that has qualifications coming out of there rear end.

 

[G1BB0]

I think its the same in most industries, companies are trying to deskill in order to pay less. Add on to that stats padding from management and its no wonder half or more are crap!

I had loads of jobs where others had been on them and either got rid as it was going to take too long and affect their stats or they missed a sometimes glaringly obvious cause!

We had 6 weeks training compared to years ago when it was 6 months shadowing and learning your skills. Luckily I had a decent bunch to learn from. It still took about 3 years to be 100% competent and confident. Nowadays they bring blokes in with a few weeks training and throw them out there and then moan when they dont do it right but moan more at us for doing it right but taking too long!! You really can't win.

Oh did I mention most of the management are either graduates on fast track or dinosaurs who havent been in the field for decades and totally out of touch.

 

[harpo_72]

I always felt company's cherry pick and don't want to train. But having said that I have trained up people only for them to leave within a year, making you think why bother if the company is not trying to keep them.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

My training was 18 months and then about 2 years on the job training

But anytime i moved base I would then need you go on an equipment course

That's doesn't happen anymore -

 

[Jack_bfc]

I started as shovel jockey in a gang and 30 years later am a civil engineer, mentoring and training graduates who we dont let through the door without a first class honors degree.

I got two poor o levels at school and nothing more.. it shows in some of my report writing still, but now I have graduates to do it for me.....

 

[Beezerk]

I fairness mate, I don't think many engineers really bother with wiring plugs and that, sounds more like basic sparky work to me
What's the pay like?

 

[SocketRocket]

I know its been said many times but the quality of modern Engineering Apprenticeships are not a patch on the ones 40/50 years ago. These were five year indentured apprenticeships that set you up with a fantastic broad set of skills that gave the underpinning to work in different industries.

 

[drawboy]

Oh did I mention most of the management are either graduates on fast track or dinosaurs who havent been in the field for decades and totally out of touch.

Is the correct answer as at our place, we may as well be self employed. Our managers do nothing to help in our day, sure they travel around the country to swanky hotels on expenses and hold meetings that achieve nothing but in reality they just bully and intimidate to keep themselves in a high paid job.

 

[Birchy]

Its alarming some of the people who think they are engineers nowadays

Wiring a plug and following instructions is common sense imo. Too many people nowadays just get a piece of paper with a qualification on and instantly think they are an engineer

As for management don't even go there. Most of them are thick as pig****.

 

[guest100718]

Probably because everything comes with a plug and there is no need to ever change one... the year is 2014 not 1978.....

 

[SatchFan]

Reminds me of a greetings card I saw recently -
"Welcome to your new job. Here's a broom".
"But I'm a student".
"In that case I'll show you how to use it".

 

[Birchy]

Probably because everything comes with a plug and there is no need to ever change one... the year is 2014 not 1978.....

That's missing the point though isn't it? Im pretty sure they don't ask people to wire a plug because they need to be able to change one to do the job.

 

[Hobbit]

Probably because everything comes with a plug and there is no need to ever change one... the year is 2014 not 1978.....

You'd be handy in an industry that keeps old equipment running as long as possible, e.g. the NHS. Can't see them binning a 15yr old £20k moblie x-ray because the plug has been damaged by the x-ray technician setting off without unplugging it...

 

[MadAdey]

The problem with the way things are now it is all about changing modules, rather than actually repairing anything. I have seen in the last 15 years in RAF how the lads now just do not have the basic skills as modern day aircraft are all about changing boxes. When I joined up we still got taught baisc hand skills, they are just taught how to diagnose and change boxes.

I imagine a lot of civilian engineering jobs are going that way.