Any greenskeepers here?

[jpjeffery]

Our course has some terrible teeing areas. Most are fine, but on five of them you can't tee up without the ball above or below your feet (or even if you can, your feet aren't level because of the mound between you and the ball).

While the lockdowns might have been a logistically ideal time to fix them, of course it was the opposite of an ideal time fiscally, and the pro-shop staff, who might have guided the greens-keeping staff in to doing the tee-levelling, were furloughed anyway.

So, I've no doubt that on 29th March these bad teeing areas will still be bad (which at least gives as an excuse for some of the bad tee shots).

Anyway, my questions for you landscape gardeners or actual greens-keeping staff are

1. How much time/effort is actually required to level out ground like this?
2. How much recovery time is needed before the teeing areas can be used again after the levelling work is completed?
3. Is it expensive (one of our members works in road maintenance, which at least is a related activity, and he reckons it's not particularly pricey)?
4. When is the best time of year to do such work (i.e. would the work have been effective during this winter lockdown)?

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

It's quite expensive to do it properly. Strip all the turf, laser level it, soil, sand, drainage etc then lay new turf and allow it to bed in. The tee would probably be out of action for at least a month if done in the growing season, longer during winter.

 

[Crazyface]

Really? I often thought at my last place they had some very undulating teeing areas which could have been sorted by levelling one half then the other. It doesn't have to be done all at once, does it?

 

[D-S]

Really? I often thought at my last place they had some very undulating teeing areas which could have been sorted by levelling one half then the other. It doesn't have to be done all at once, does it?

If you want the whole platform to be flat it should be done at the same time, trying to laser level topsoil on one half of a tee to match the other half after turf is applied is a recipe for a two tier tee. If you have a small drop on the tee, you lose some teeing ground.

 

[upsidedown]

Last week we did a tee that had suffered badly in last year's dry spell in lockdown. It was a freebie from the company selling the machine , which normally does Premier and Championship pitches every year. It takes off about 1-2 inches of the top , which was then top dressed with sand to even out any hollows and seeded with a disc seeder. For 350 sqm it took around 3.5 hours and tee will be out of action for 10 -12 weeks, depending on weather. Spoke to a contractor and he'd supply the machine at £700 per week +VAT. Labour , sand and seed on top.
We've also been constructing new tee for the Ladies and overall it has taken around 5 days over 10 weeks , lots of interruptions from weather. It will be turfed but will be 6-8 weeks before played on to allow the turf to bed in
Autumn is best time for seeding and turf can be laid anytime of the year

 

[IanM]

If you want the whole platform to be flat it should be done at the same time, trying to laser level topsoil on one half of a tee to match the other half after turf is applied is a recipe for a two tier tee. If you have a small drop on the tee, you lose some teeing ground.

...and whatever the job, it is cheaper to get the equipment on-site once, not twice

 

[patricks148]

i'd say if you where going to do it make sure its done prop, bodge job, will just need doing again. we have a couple of extra winter Tee's built a few years ago and bits have sank already

 

[clubchamp98]

What makes you think the pro shop staff could guide the green keepers to do a good job?
Would you have a golf lesson of a greenkeeper?

This type of job is quite expensive.
Very labour intensive so that costs money.
That’s if you were able to get the materials during lockdown.
We did three last year and realistically it takes about 3 months before they are ready to play .
But that is very weather dependant.

 

[jim8flog]

And remember it is not a one time job.

20 stone person on one part and a 10 stone person on another part, it's soil not not concrete etc.

 

[rulefan]

From experience I would agree with all the above except about splitting the job.

 

[sunshine]

This is easy. Get your mate who does road maintenance to tarmac the tees and they will be lovely and smooth. Then the pro shop staff can advise the workmen on what flex shaft they need and sell them some mars bars.

 

[jim8flog]

The previous course manager used something like this

https://www.gardenoasis.co.uk/lawn-...MImtnjzpC67wIVCOrtCh3jMA1TEAQYASABEgJkb_D_BwE

The tees were back in play in a lot quicker time and have remained pretty resilient.

 

[Blue in Munich]

If you were a green keeper or greens staff, would you be daft enough to admit it on a forum full of expert green keepers...

 

[jpjeffery]

What makes you think the pro shop staff could guide the green keepers to do a good job?
Would you have a golf lesson of a greenkeeper?

When I said guide them, I just meant to tell them that the job needs doing at all, not show them how to do it...

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

When I said guide them, I just meant to tell them that the job needs doing at all, not show them how to do it...

If a head green keeper needs to be told that a tee isn't level he shouldn't be doing that job. It's basic stuff and not part of the pro's job description to tell him.

 

[clubchamp98]

When I said guide them, I just meant to tell them that the job needs doing at all, not show them how to do it...

If he needs telling he’s not doing his job.
I ask our GK lots of questions all the time.
I am interested in what and why they do things ,I have learnt a lot off the lads.
But you have to be carful how you ask.
Nobody like being told they are crap at their job.
Maybe the GK knows and wants to do it but the club just can’t afford it.
Ask him you might be surprised at his answer.

 

[jpjeffery]

If a head green keeper needs to be told that a tee isn't level he shouldn't be doing that job. It's basic stuff and not part of the pro's job description to tell him.

That might depend on who's pulling the purse strings...

Honestly, I don't know if there even is a head GK.

 

[jpjeffery]

If he needs telling he’s not doing his job.
I ask our GK lots of questions all the time.
I am interested in what and why they do things ,I have learnt a lot off the lads.
But you have to be carful how you ask.
Nobody like being told they are crap at their job.
Maybe the GK knows and wants to do it but the club just can’t afford it.
Ask him you might be surprised at his answer.

As I mentioned to drive4show, I don't know who they are, and I'm not sure anyone in our club does.

I agree that the GK staff may be well aware of the poor state of the teeing areas and that they're not given the budget to fix them. All we can do as a club is complain (as nicely as possible, particularly as they've all been on furlough!) to the pro shop staff since they're the people we have a relationship with.

I'm not suggesting the GK staff are bad at their jobs (although there have been some explanations from the pro shop staff about some bad pin positions that seem to suggest that the greenkeeper responsible for the pins that week doesn't actually understand golf!)

The fact is that for whatever reason these teeing areas are bad, many of our members complain about them, and I'm confident that the state of them don't go unnoticed by visitors either. I just wanted to understand how easy/expensive a job it is in order to gauge the likelihood of the issue getting addressed. From the responses above, it's not easy, nor quick, nor cheap, so I suspect we're going to have to put up with them for some time yet!

---

Just to explain, my club moved to this venue in 2016 after our original venue was closed down by the owning council. The resident club also doesn't own the current venue, nor employ the staff. The course is owned by the hotel that the course is in the grounds of, so I strongly suspect that not even the pro shop staff have that much say in gets to be done.

 

[backwoodsman]

If you're at where I think you are, (and i guess you'd have already named it if you wanted to) I suspect the Pro-shop has little involvement in course management. But presumably they will know who it falls to. Can you not ask them what the management structure is within the corporate body, and who within the organisation has overall responsibility for the course maintenance and course budget. Failing that, start with the general manager of the site. I guess the greenstaff are tied by budget and in corporate settings, budgets will be driven by customer feedback/reaction. You need to find where best to direct that feedback.