any drills for a fade

[The19thHole]

or would aim left and open the club face and swing naturally work?

 

[craig_chesterfield]

aim the clubface at your target with your body (shoulders etc) aiming at where you want your ball flight to begin with a natural swing. This should bring about a natural fade.

 

[One Planer]

James will be along in a minute to set this thread straight


I'm off to get some pop corn

 

[bobmac]

Aim yourself left of the green side bunker and point your club face at the green side bunker. The ball should finish on the green.

 

[Ethan]

Well, stacking and tilting is the way to draw it, so don't do that.

 

[SocketRocket]

aim the clubface at your target with your body (shoulders etc) aiming at where you want your ball flight to begin with a natural swing. This should bring about a natural fade.

This will miss the green to the right.

 

[JustOne]

James will be along in a minute to set this thread straight


I'm off to get some pop corn

No need, Bobmac has sussed the ballflight laws now .... he's so feckin' cute and cuddly!



(LOLOLOL....I remember writing a thread about 2 years ago about aiming at the greenside bunker and everyone berated me as if I'd burnt an innocent witch at the stake... just laughing to myself gently....... NURSE!.... I need toilet!!)

 

[Oddsocks]

so to confirm, you aim the clubface on the path you want the ball to start on, then open or close your stance accordingly... do i have that correct?

IE

Draw to the green - club face aiming at right hand green side bunker, then aim with the feet further right - draw back to the green


Fade to the green - club face aiming at Left hand green side bunker, then aim with the feet further left - Fade back to the green

 

[Intel]

so to confirm, you aim the clubface on the path you want the ball to start on, then open or close your stance accordingly... do i have that correct?

IE

Draw to the green - club face aiming at right hand green side bunker, then aim with the feet further right - draw back to the green


Fade to the green - club face aiming at Left hand green side bunker, then aim with the feet further left - Fade back to the green

Oddsocks

As a general rule of thumb, if you want to fade a ball, take your normal stance and normal swing but, open the club face a bit.

Don't forget, you will need to aim left a bit to compensate(assuming you're right handed) and you'll have to club up to get the yardage because you will hit the ball a little shorter than normal. Also, don't forget to open the club face BEFORE you take your grip and NOT after (a common mistake).

A bit of range time will tell you how much too open the face or aim off or how much extra club to take.

 

[JustOne]

so to confirm, you aim the clubface on the path you want the ball to start on, then open or close your stance accordingly... do i have that correct?

IE

Draw to the green - club face aiming at right hand green side bunker, then aim with the feet further right - draw back to the green


Fade to the green - club face aiming at Left hand green side bunker, then aim with the feet further left - Fade back to the green

Barry you are 100% correct for the fade as Bob described. For the draw it's better (well I think so) to stand square and aim at the right bunker and let your swingpath alone draw the ball.. if you close your stance hitting the draw you are basically pulling the ball across yourself, if that's the only way you can do it then no worries... but I would recommend learning to hit a draw properly.

 

[Oddsocks]

inter/JO, ta muchly.

 

[The19thHole]

thanks for the info guys... just in time for the range tonight

 

[bobmac]

if you close your stance hitting the draw you are basically pulling the ball across yourself, if that's the only way you can do it then no worries... but I would recommend learning to hit a draw properly.

And that is the crux of the problem James.
It's all very well working out the theory and it may be rock solid but on the range, when the pupil has been swinging out to in for 20 years, it's very very difficult to change habits which are so ingrained, especially those who are self taught.

 

[JustOne]

I totally agree Bob, but that's not to say that a quick fix is the answer. I realise all the problems and have argued them since Apr 2009 when I joined... wow we've been bickering for over 2½ years! LOLOLOL

If you're teaching someone to hit a push-fade (as we did above) then you might as well teach them the push-draw.... they should (in theory) be swinging/hitting from the inside on both.

 

[SGC001]

Justone where are you getting this pulling across yourself from? Are you talking about swing paths or just ball direction? If it's swing paths you aren't having too, if it's ball direction why does that bother you? You can still hit a high draw by increasing effective loft when hitting a pull draw.

I read bobmacs posts as suggesting players swing in to square to in.

So for a fade aim left and swing in to square to in (relative to you), which is now in out to in (relative to the ball) due to your body aim line with a face aimed left of target and right of the swing path (relative to the ball).

and for a draw aim right and swing in to square in (relative to you), which is now in to out (relative to the ball) due to your body aim line and with a face aimed right of the target, but left of the path (erlative to the ball).

 

[JustOne]

and for a draw aim right and swing in to square in (relative to you), which is now in to out (relative to the ball) due to your body aim line and with a face aimed right of the target, but left of the path (erlative to the ball).

Picture the scene: Flag in the middle, then to the right is a bunker, then to the right is rough... where are you aiming? where is the face? where is the path? Once you start aiming right with your body line you need to determine where the face should point, is it at the flag, at the bunker or at the rough, also what happens if the face is too open/closed. What you're basically suggesting is to get someone who hits a snap hook and tell them to line up 45° right and somehow figure out what now points where. Before you know it they start rolling the face closed for fear of losing it right... so what happens next time they need a fade?.. it all starts to go pear-shaped. They end up with an hold off release for a fade and a rolling one for a draw which then brings timing into play and wooohoooo it's all over the shop!

You've now got to the point where you have to aim left to fade and aim right to draw... so somewhere in the middle would be straight?... and then it all gets confusing and the player then doesn't know what going on in their swing, they're holding off, rolling, aiming right aiming left and shooting 25 over par and wondering why the lessons aren't paying off... you still with me?

It's a lot easier (I believe) so say aim left for a fade and straight for a draw. I know it's possibly splitting hairs but I personally believe if you're going to teach someone then you should teach them the correct facts. If you're going to teach/recommend a shortcut then (a) you should say so (b) explain the implications


The 'pull' comes from the ball starting left of the toe line. If you were lined up straight the shot would be a pull-draw, it would start straight(ish) and go left.

 

[bobmac]

What you're basically suggesting is to get someone who hits a snap hook and tell them to line up 45° right and somehow figure out what now points where. Before you know it they start rolling the face closed for fear of losing it right... so what happens next time they need a fade?.. it all starts to go pear-shaped. They end up with an hold off release for a fade and a rolling one for a draw which then brings timing into play and wooohoooo it's all over the shop!

James, you're off again.
I've told you a million times..........

There's no reason why you cant aim right and close the face a bit.
In my experience, its much easier for the golfer to hit the ball right to left this way when they can't swing in to out.
And believe me, there are many many out there who cant.
Anyway, back to the OP..........

 

[SGC001]

Justone it might be argued that keeping the same swing and just adapting your set up is easier than changing your swingpath and the club heads relationship to that swingpath. However, I am quite happy hitting fades and draws in a variety of ways and as I believe people benefit from options I'm happy for them to have more than one and seeing which way may suit them best.

I'm not sure I appreciate the comments about snaphooks and those that follow as they seem to be aimed at engendering fear rather than discussion or thought. However, if you are hitting a draw / fade you need the clubface and path to be along different lines (keeping unnecessary complexities out of it). Roughly speaking to draw a 5 iron the path needs to be 5 degrees in to out and the face 2 degrees closed to the path and that applies whether you are pull drawing it or push drawing it. Golf is a target game game and it's about getting the ball to that target, however you get there.

Anyway, so your definition of pulling across is not referring to the swing around the body, but the ball flight.

 

[JustOne]

I am quite happy hitting fades and draws in a variety of ways and as I believe people benefit from options I'm happy for them to have more than one and seeing which way may suit them best.

If someone is hitting push-shots as per the push-fade Bobmac described do you think it would be easier/better to get them to hit a push-draw or a pull-draw?

Seeing as that was what the thread was about and that was the advice offered....




Now if someone hits a pull-fade (which is such a bad shot on so many levels) then yes you might as well teach them the pull-draw too... then they can be the proud owner of 2 bad shots

 

[bobmac]

If a pull goes straight left, a pull slice starts left and misses right, does a pull fade not start left and finish on target, assuming the aim is ok?