Another reason I hate CSS...

[Imurg]

I know and understand CSS - I don't agree with it as many will know but I understand it.

CSS goes down 1 shot if enough players play within 2 shots of SSS.
But if nobody actually shoots lower than SSS what possible reason can there be for lowering CSS?
Last week's Midweek Medal - SSS 69 CSS 68.
Best score returned was nett 69...

If enough shoot lower than SSS I can kind of see where it's coming from, but if not 1 person breaks SSS it makes no sense at all.

Can someone who agrees with CSS explain the logic behind that one please.....??

 

[Fyldewhite]

Because the handicap system is statistically not based on your ability to play to your handicap or SSS. It is expected that players play above their handicap on average hence the buffer zone. As the average buffer zone of cat 1-3 is 2 shots then this is taken as the benchmark for how easy/difficult the course played on a particular day. It's the percentage of players scoring better than this that matters not the number of "good" scores (sure you know that). It seems odd that it goes down when nobody beats SSS but there must have been a helluva lot in the buffer zone. In fact a lot more than you would expect statistically so the course WAS playing easier despite no low scores. The usual bandits just had a bad day and left some out there.

 

[Mike_j_golf]

I know the reason for SSS and CSS but can't see how it travels from course to course.
Example player A playes on a course par 72 SSS 68, player B playes on a course par 72 SSS 75 both are scratch golfers.
In theory if they both play in a open comp on a course where Par and SSS are both 72 on a perfect day player B should beat player A by 7 shots. Unless i am missing something should u not get a couple of shots add or deducted to take into account the diffculty of the course, I believe this is how the American system works u get a handicap for the day depending on the diffculity of the course. Sorry for hi-jacking the thread.
Mike

 

[Curls]

I've only played in one comp and I hate CSS already, was full sure I was in for a cut having come 3rd, no joy. Imagine what I'll be like when Im playing years, I'll have strung the h/c secretary up :0

I don't think it will ever change though, what are the alternatives? Is there anything else other than the US system? Because the thought that us-over-ere would admit that them-over-there have a better idea and introduce the Slope would be enough to start a riot.

But then so is the opportunity for free shell suits

 

[Deleted member 3432]

I know the reason for SSS and CSS but can't see how it travels from course to course.
Example player A playes on a course par 72 SSS 68, player B playes on a course par 72 SSS 75 both are scratch golfers.
In theory if they both play in a open comp on a course where Par and SSS are both 72 on a perfect day player B should beat player A by 7 shots. Unless i am missing something should u not get a couple of shots add or deducted to take into account the diffculty of the course, I believe this is how the American system works u get a handicap for the day depending on the diffculity of the course. Sorry for hi-jacking the thread.
Mike

Player A has to make 4 birdies before he has started. Player B can have a scratch handicap shooting 3 over every week. Disregard the par of the course you are playing, the true par is the SSS, thats how I approach it anyway. My course is 72, SSS 70 its not easy but thats the way it is. Play a few open singles comps on away courses a see how it compares to your home course.

 

[DCB]

Re the examples in the previous post.

If the course is properly rated, then there shouldn't really be a problem.

What seems to muck things up is the way long par3s get carded as short par4s and long par4s get carded as par5s. In reality, if they were given the correct par at the start, then SSS wouldn't be so different from Par. Sometimes this is just to keep the Par up on the card to make the course look longer or harder than it really is

 

[Curls]

Re the examples in the previous post.

If the course is properly rated, then there shouldn't really be a problem.

What seems to muck things up is the way long par3s get carded as short par4s and long par4s get carded as par5s. In reality, if they were given the correct par at the start, then SSS wouldn't be so different from Par. Sometimes this is just to keep the Par up on the card to make the course look longer or harder than it really is

Nail, meet Head.

You're so right, if our last course didn't have so many short par 4s in an attempt to be a "par 70" then it wouldn't have an SSS of 67. The disappointing this was there was obviously scope to lengthen these, but there is no course management or will to improve (governed by lack of money, or more accurately, will to spend money).

Joining a new club tomorrow, can't wait, sleeps will be hard to come by tonight methinks

 

[G1BB0]

well I came 7th in comp with 37 points, last comp it would have got me a .8 cut as css was 1 over course par 70 (thus 35 points), this comp it was 1 under so 37 points = to handicap... crapola

looks like I will have to score net minimum 3 under this wekend to come down grrrr

 

[doublebogey7]

I know the reason for SSS and CSS but can't see how it travels from course to course.
Example player A playes on a course par 72 SSS 68, player B playes on a course par 72 SSS 75 both are scratch golfers.
In theory if they both play in a open comp on a course where Par and SSS are both 72 on a perfect day player B should beat player A by 7 shots. Unless i am missing something should u not get a couple of shots add or deducted to take into account the diffculty of the course, I believe this is how the American system works u get a handicap for the day depending on the diffculity of the course. Sorry for hi-jacking the thread.
Mike

How is that, a scratch player is a scratch player, at any given course if they are both playing to their full potential they will shoot the same score. In your example the theory goes that the course with an SSS of 75 plays 7 shots harder for a scratch golfer than the course with an SSS of 68.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Because the handicap system is statistically not based on your ability to play to your handicap or SSS. It is expected that players play above their handicap on average hence the buffer zone. As the average buffer zone of cat 1-3 is 2 shots then this is taken as the benchmark for how easy/difficult the course played on a particular day. It's the percentage of players scoring better than this that matters not the number of "good" scores (sure you know that). It seems odd that it goes down when nobody beats SSS but there must have been a helluva lot in the buffer zone. In fact a lot more than you would expect statistically so the course WAS playing easier despite no low scores. The usual bandits just had a bad day and left some out there.

If players are expected to play above their h'cap, why does CSS go down when a lot of the field do

 

[Imurg]

The Weekend comp saw a similar number at SSS or +2, several players beat SSS, some handsomely, yet CSS remained at 69.
Mr Spock would have a field day with this......
Logic...?
Give me strength

 

[Mike_j_golf]

I know the reason for SSS and CSS but can't see how it travels from course to course.
Example player A playes on a course par 72 SSS 68, player B playes on a course par 72 SSS 75 both are scratch golfers.
In theory if they both play in a open comp on a course where Par and SSS are both 72 on a perfect day player B should beat player A by 7 shots. Unless i am missing something should u not get a couple of shots add or deducted to take into account the diffculty of the course, I believe this is how the American system works u get a handicap for the day depending on the diffculity of the course. Sorry for hi-jacking the thread.
Mike

How is that, a scratch player is a scratch player, at any given course if they are both playing to their full potential they will shoot the same score. In your example the theory goes that the course with an SSS of 75 plays 7 shots harder for a scratch golfer than the course with an SSS of 68.

As far as i know the SSS of a course is the score a scratch golfer will shoot given ideal conditions. So in theory if u have a scratch handicap at a course where SSS is 68 u would be around 7 at one that has a sss of 75.
Mike

 

[MashieNiblick]

I know the reason for SSS and CSS but can't see how it travels from course to course.
Example player A playes on a course par 72 SSS 68, player B playes on a course par 72 SSS 75 both are scratch golfers.
In theory if they both play in a open comp on a course where Par and SSS are both 72 on a perfect day player B should beat player A by 7 shots. Unless i am missing something should u not get a couple of shots add or deducted to take into account the diffculty of the course, I believe this is how the American system works u get a handicap for the day depending on the diffculity of the course. Sorry for hi-jacking the thread.
Mike

How is that, a scratch player is a scratch player, at any given course if they are both playing to their full potential they will shoot the same score. In your example the theory goes that the course with an SSS of 75 plays 7 shots harder for a scratch golfer than the course with an SSS of 68.

As far as i know the SSS of a course is the score a scratch golfer will shoot given ideal conditions. So in theory if u have a scratch handicap at a course where SSS is 68 u would be around 7 at one that has a sss of 75.
Mike

Not sure if I am reading that right, but if you are a scratch handicap you should theoretically match the SSS wherever you play, so if SSS is 68 you shoot 68, if it's 73 you shoot 73. Different score but same handicap. A scratch player at a club with SS 68 would still be scratch at a club with SSS 73. He wouldn't be 5h/cap as that would indicate he'd be expected to shoot 78. the higher SSS means it's a "harder" course so the scratch player's score is expected to be higher.