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AND HERE WE GO - THE 2019 GENERAL ELECTION THREAD

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chrisd said:
Parts of the NHS have been privatised since back in the Blair days. It's strange that, according to some on here, that the NHS has only gone downhill in the past 10 years, but I guess that just suits the anti Tory narrative
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Had anyone actually stated that it’s “only” gone downhill over the past years ? Or does that suit your “pro Tory narrative”

The NHS right now is a mess and in crisis - the current Tory government have been the custodians of the NHS during the last tens years so it’s their responsibility if issues have escalated over the period.

I have no doubt that if we look back at Election promises from the Tories over the last ten years there will be a lot of “we will improve the NHS”

This crisis is happening on their watch

Whataboutary won’t change that
 
chrisd said:
Parts of the NHS have been privatised since back in the Blair days. It's strange that, according to some on here, that the NHS has only gone downhill in the past 10 years, but I guess that just suits the anti Tory narrative
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No the nhs has been on a downward spiral - you can not fix long term non investment in a 4-5yr term. Blair’s government had to fix how many years of Tory low investment? 20-30years ? Just think if the short fall is 2billion a year and then multiply up by inflation and years of no investment.. it’s a disaster.

The U.K. is still one of the lowest payers of salary for certain key skills ..
 
patricks148 said:
suprised this wasn't mentioned esp after mister Right wing poster stuck it up like a shot last night, notice he's deleted it now though. But thats not my point, Kuensberg was on this like flies on yoiu know what show the type of journalist she is load a clear, back tracking now though:censored:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1204091610843226112
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While I'd be of the view that a journalist shouldn't name their source, under almost any circumstances, I'd take a different view here.

LauraK and Peston both fed a complete lie by a 'senior Tory' and regurgitated it as news. Then it emerged the source was completely at it, fabricating something that simply didn't happen.

The source should be named and shamed to ensure that these anonymous sources know there are consequences. I'm sure both journos had some choice words with the source and they've perhaps burned a life that they can't use again, but tomorrow it could be another senior Tory source that gets given the phone numbers of these journalists.

As it is, we see 'no 10 source' or 'senior Tory source' whether it is Boris, Gove, Cummings or other less visible people being allows to pass things off and gain credibility from BBC and ITV networks. The current 'process' allows misinformation to be spread quickly through supposed trustworthy sources. Even if it is then reigned back on in public statements or actual evidence, it has still done the trick to change the flow of news and deflect from the real issue of that day.
 
harpo_72 said:
No the nhs has been on a downward spiral - you can not fix long term non investment in a 4-5yr term. Blair’s government had to fix how many years of Tory low investment? 20-30years ? Just think if the short fall is 2billion a year and then multiply up by inflation and years of no investment.. it’s a disaster.

The U.K. is still one of the lowest payers of salary for certain key skills ..
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The Tory's were in government for the previous 20 to 30 years before Blair?
 
Or perhaps LauraK and Peston both don't care and they love to be at the centre of the maze, getting all the info from the most senior people and deciding what 'makes the cut' for that days news.

Certainly Laura's apology was a bit routine... 'happy to apologise...' or words to that effect.
 
Grant85 said:
While I'd be of the view that a journalist shouldn't name their source, under almost any circumstances, I'd take a different view here.

LauraK and Peston both fed a complete lie by a 'senior Tory' and regurgitated it as news. Then it emerged the source was completely at it, fabricating something that simply didn't happen.

The source should be named and shamed to ensure that these anonymous sources know there are consequences. I'm sure both journos had some choice words with the source and they've perhaps burned a life that they can't use again, but tomorrow it could be another senior Tory source that gets given the phone numbers of these journalists.

As it is, we see 'no 10 source' or 'senior Tory source' whether it is Boris, Gove, Cummings or other less visible people being allows to pass things off and gain credibility from BBC and ITV networks. The current 'process' allows misinformation to be spread quickly through supposed trustworthy sources. Even if it is then reigned back on in public statements or actual evidence, it has still done the trick to change the flow of news and deflect from the real issue of that day.
Click to expand...

there is a guy been saying this for years, ex Telegraph editor, about the outright lies being pushed by sources and the BBC and other outlets passing it off as news. I thought the job of a journalist was to check the facts before reporting, thought they would have learned a lesson after the Cliff Fiasco... did a good job of deflecting away from her idol Boris making a tit of himself with the ITV guys phone
 
Imurg said:
Many, many hospital pediatric units are swamped with sick kids at the moment.
Stoke Mandeville's is currently running at 200% of capacity - yep, twice the usual number, all needing beds, treatment and medecines
They're opening vacant offices and any other rooms they can find to have somewhere to put these kids.
Nurses are working double shifts to try and keep up
And they're still coming.
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No doubt the usual whinge bags will blame Boris for the kids being ill
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Had anyone actually stated that it’s “only” gone downhill over the past years ? Or does that suit your “pro Tory narrative”

The NHS right now is a mess and in crisis - the current Tory government have been the custodians of the NHS during the last tens years so it’s their responsibility if issues have escalated over the period.

I have no doubt that if we look back at Election promises from the Tories over the last ten years there will be a lot of “we will improve the NHS”

This crisis is happening on their watch

Whataboutary won’t change that
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...and why did Johnson react as he did yesterday when the journalist tried to show him the photo...?

Let me guess - whatever the truth of the photo, it is clear to me that Johnson wanted to avoid looking at the photo as he wanted to be able to say, whenever questioned on it, that he hadn’t seen the photo so couldn’t comment. In fact if I recall he actually started to say that when first asked to comment on it.

As on so much, Johnson is desperate to avoid scrutiny or having to comment ‘off the cuff’ - why is that I wonder...can he not think for himself?
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
...and why did Johnson react as he did yesterday when the journalist tried to show him the photo...?

Let me guess - whatever the truth of the photo, it is clear to me that Johnson wanted to avoid looking at the photo as he wanted to be able to say, whenever questioned on it, that he hadn’t seen the photo so couldn’t comment. In fact if I recall he actually started to say that when first asked to comment on it.

As on so much, Johnson is desperate to avoid scrutiny or having to comment ‘off the cuff’ - why is that I wonder...can he not think for himself?
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Johnson is a prat and not a capable person. His whole ruffled hair nonsense and immense privilege are not what makes a good PM
 
Grant85 said:
While I'd be of the view that a journalist shouldn't name their source, under almost any circumstances, I'd take a different view here.

LauraK and Peston both fed a complete lie by a 'senior Tory' and regurgitated it as news. Then it emerged the source was completely at it, fabricating something that simply didn't happen.

The source should be named and shamed to ensure that these anonymous sources know there are consequences. I'm sure both journos had some choice words with the source and they've perhaps burned a life that they can't use again, but tomorrow it could be another senior Tory source that gets given the phone numbers of these journalists.

As it is, we see 'no 10 source' or 'senior Tory source' whether it is Boris, Gove, Cummings or other less visible people being allows to pass things off and gain credibility from BBC and ITV networks. The current 'process' allows misinformation to be spread quickly through supposed trustworthy sources. Even if it is then reigned back on in public statements or actual evidence, it has still done the trick to change the flow of news and deflect from the real issue of that day.
Click to expand...

I think senior journalists are in a difficult place now. They both have access to people at the very top and as a journalist, that is something you want to cultivate and something that is a feather in your cap. So naturally you are going to try and please your sources by using their quotes/information. However I think we are now in a pretty dark place where people at the very top are willing to use these journalists to peddle at best misleading statements, and at worst out right lies. Knowing full well that if these senior journalists post it then there is an element of credibility. These journalists need to have a long hard think about what they put out now as it should be clear to them they are being used.

We seem to be in a very dangerous situation now. The newspapers are mostly party political broadcasts now and look how many people allegedly had friends in a hospital. But are those screen grabs fakes, did he say colour or talent, who knows anymore. Some people claim that not respecting the result of the referendum would be the biggest democratic mistake we could make. But to me we are seeing true democracy seep away under a barrage of misinformation, lies and increasingly ridiculous claims by all parties on what they will do. And a public that seems willing to accept a lot of this at face value if it backs up any preconceived thoughts they might have.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1204178211493621767
 
harpo_72 said:
No the nhs has been on a downward spiral - you can not fix long term non investment in a 4-5yr term. Blair’s government had to fix how many years of Tory low investment? 20-30years ? Just think if the short fall is 2billion a year and then multiply up by inflation and years of no investment.. it’s a disaster.

The U.K. is still one of the lowest payers of salary for certain key skills ..
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maybe if the NHS weren't paying for all those lovely PFI hospitals then they'd have some funds for other stuff.
 
ColchesterFC said:
Can you summarise for me please. Can't read the article without paying. Cheers.
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Apologies as when I clicked on it it was available for free and I don;t subscribe. But I can see it's behind a pay wall now. Basically it was saying that Boris is more interested in gaining power and not very good at what he will do once he has it. And that will lead to problems just mounting up when he can't do what he claims. And there was some stuff about any trade deal he is likely to get if he wants it all done by the end of next year not being good for our economy, but then again we all know that the only threat to our economy is Jeremy Corbyn so no need to worry about the FT saying otherwise. ;) But they said it in a much more intelligent way than I did.
 
patricks148 said:
there is a guy been saying this for years, ex Telegraph editor, about the outright lies being pushed by sources and the BBC and other outlets passing it off as news. I thought the job of a journalist was to check the facts before reporting, thought they would have learned a lesson after the Cliff Fiasco... did a good job of deflecting away from her idol Boris making a tit of himself with the ITV guys phone
Click to expand...

Although you must see the irony of a Telegraph editor complaining that what comes out of a media outlet is not news but thinly (or not so thinly) veiled political propaganda. ;)
 
..and the punch...? A complete invention of some Tory Spinmeister. A dead cat story to detract from Johnson refusing to look at the photo and having to explain why a Tory government has let the NHS deteriorate over the last 10 years to where it is today - a difficult uncomfortable truth about the Tory Governments of the last 9-10 years. And the journalist's phone ends up in Johnson's pocket - eh?
 
Yesterday was a very, very bad day for the Conservatives. The evening and night time news and even this mornings news is all about Boris, the hospital and his inept handling of it. He could have resolved it in 10 seconds. Instead, with 2 days until polling day he has had a car crash. Boy do they need to switch the agenda big time today. Yesterday could be huge for Labour if they can keep the story going.
 
Lord Tyrion said:
Yesterday was a very, very bad day for the Conservatives. The evening and night time news and even this mornings news is all about Boris, the hospital and his inept handling of it. He could have resolved it in 10 seconds. Instead, with 2 days until polling day he has had a car crash. Boy do they need to switch the agenda big time today. Yesterday could be huge for Labour if they can keep the story going.
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Johnson already been banging loudly on the table about Corbyn being neutral on Brexit - make it Brexit - Get Brexit Done - and make it loud and shout it out - clearly the message to Johnson from DomCum

Because yesterday I watched and listened to voters in northern seats totally conflicted over who to vote for. So many absolutely don't want to vote for the Tories for all the right reasons - on the NHS, education, services, social care etc - but they have been sold the pup that is Brexit as being the panacea for all their ills. So convinced are so many by the Brexit promises of a new beginning - that they will vote against their better judgement it seems.

How can I blame them - I cannot. Anyone desperate for a change in their circumstances will look to whoever, and Leave made many positive statements about the new world now in touching distance - and so many now believe that Brexit will bring the deliverance that voting Labour cannot. And I fear that they will be very let down...

And so today Johnson and his motley crew will be loudly banging the Brexit drum...
 
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