AND HERE WE GO - THE 2019 GENERAL ELECTION THREAD

[patricks148]

...made worse as they preside over trying to sort out issues arising from leaving the EU without a deal - and they will blame the Remain supporters in much the same way as Javid was recently blaming Labour for current levels of homelessness.

yes cracks me up the way the people of voted against the deal everytime it came to parliment.. keep blaming others for it

 

[harpo_72]

Do you honestly believe that section I have highlighted. You need to research it far better and not just believe what the government tell you.

We have been living in a massive worldwide credit boom since the 60s-70s(hence asset prices up to silly prices, stealing out earnings from the future to spend now, on credit) and no one is really stopping it, Labour or Tory. I saw the problems(along with a lot of other people, if you read the correct stuff, rather than the mainstream tosh) coming in the late 90s, by early 2000s there was major problems and we still have not solve the problem, just kicked it down the road by slashing/reducing interest rates. The day of reckoning will come, what will be done will be interesting bit.....

Funny how you have not mentioned the 70s era better as well and why Thatcher got in and the action that was taken against unions/wrokers. The workers( & unions) made their industries non-competitive, we are in a global system and if it was cheaper to produce/dig up stuff here, then it would still be going on. Never forget the power of market forces in a global system. People think they can control it but rarely does it last for long.

No I am aware of the credit issues, and without sounding "holier than thou" the current system of freely allowing people to take credit without understanding the consequences are the issue.
Masses of profit are generated off the back of credit deals, but very few people view them for what they are .. which is basically making someone rich for doing nothing. We have a consumer society fueled by the media and this is very hard to resist and this is the downward spiral.

I do love the phrases "drink responsibly", "bet responsibly" etc.. we have banned smoking advertising for me this is no worse than gambling and drinking ... all of which I have enjoyed I cannot deny. The point being credit is as bad as gambling and those that are pushing it are on par with drug dealers (we still believe the drug dealer is the bad guy or do we think he is an honest soul making a business ?? )
So yes I hold the banks responsible completely as they took advantage of the weak.

I agree the unions played their part in the UK manufacturing downfall, but the management was the governments to do and they failed ..and they never set up to re-establish heavy industry. Seriously thinking it would go somewhere cheaper, yes it will, it will chase the low cost labour .. But we have never added tariffs or lobbied Europe to tariff that competition, nor have we made the effort to stymie the China steel situation which could have been done with purity levels.

The point is, this business government are just a bunch of blow hards who talk a good game but cannot play it .. I know hindsight is 20:20 vision but I have not witnessed any Tory government in recent history with any vision. I just hear excuses, down right lies and blaming others .. The Tories will get my vote when they change that and Labour or Liberal will lose my vote if they descend to this level.

 

[chrisd]

List of governments
1951-1963 - Tory
1964-70 - Labour
1970-74 - Tory
1974-79 - Labour minority
1979-1996 - Tory (North south divide created, heavy manufacturing destroyed, services sold and stripped ...)
1997 -2010 - Labour (pretty painless until the bankers balls it up!)
2010 -2015 - Tory / liberal (might as well just been Tory with the way Clegg rolled over)
2015 - 2019 - Tory, although they caused some self harm

So simple generalisation and you can kick up a storm ... long periods of Tory destruction of the services, every year in power requires 2 years to rectify their lack of investment if we cannot take the tax hike. So we start with 12 years of Tory monetary policy, we get 6 years to rectify their spending, then we get another 4 years of damage and 5 years of a labour government with no power, so cannot address the issues. Then we get Thatcher (greed is good, bosh bosh, look at my wad ), utter fiscal disaster ensues at the latter part of her tenure when it all comes home to roost, manages to sell off shed loads of stuff as well, John Major steps in and brings a clueless chancellor .. pretty much disaster. Labour get in, they have 15 years of Tory damage to rectify, you would think, but no the Tories have ramped it up and doubled their collateral damage. Labour set about fixing it but over a long period of time .. then the banks start to be idiots and loan money to people who cannot afford it in the states and our banks want a bit of the action and force a recession in the UK .. Labour get's the blame,and enter Dave the car salesman and nothing happens apart from a really bad decision about a Brexit referendum and the country is completely divided.... add into the mix a left labour movement that is at the mercy of right wing press and a liberal democrat party that needs to shake off the Clegg legacy ... (oh yeah and they forgot to sort out the Banks properly regards the bail out money, sold them back at low cost .. great bit of business that was from the Party that is business orientated)

So in a nut shell that is why the NHS is poor, this why your lucky your enjoying retirement compared to those of us who won't be retiring in 20 years time and that is why it's 20-30years of damage.

I've read some tosh in my time

 

[harpo_72]

I've read some tosh in my time

I know, and you quoted / spout it frequently

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Many, many hospital pediatric units are swamped with sick kids at the moment.
Stoke Mandeville's is currently running at 200% of capacity - yep, twice the usual number, all needing beds, treatment and medecines
They're opening vacant offices and any other rooms they can find to have somewhere to put these kids.
Nurses are working double shifts to try and keep up
And they're still coming.

I agree this is a really bad situation, and it's down to one thing only.
An exponential demand caused by an exponential increase in population.
I'm sure that if there had not been such an increase in demand , then the hospital could be coping. Because if they could not , it means that their efficiency and/or effort has quickly gone downhill. And the good people working in the NHS have not all got worse in skill or caring that quickly, nor IMO, at all.
If a wave of a magic wand could suddenly produce another exact same hospital nearby, then we all know there wouldn't be a problem. And whatever party gets in cannot achieve that. Things can't happen that quickly, but intentions can.
They need to try however, and it will mean some increase in funding, I.e taxation. It's time that Tory dogma stopped regarding the word taxation as anathema: however Labour should not see it as a permission to throw money about irresponsibly on undeserving schemes and people.
And both should ,at the same time , be realistic about allowing the unsustainable , unjustified, and quite honestly, stupid increase in the population of this Country.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Interesting interview by James O'Brien LBC with the Editor of the Yorkshire Evening Post (James Mitchinson) over the 'Jack photo' and what has happened and the YP has done since on the Fake News tweets - as were shared by many including Allison Pearson - that stated the picture was staged. It was the YP that first published the story. Fascinating insight into the struggles of such as the YP against Fake News and trying to educate and inform their readers about the story and why the fake news was fake.

Can be listened to on Global Player catch up from about 11:30am.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Interesting interview by James O'Brien LBC with the Editor of the Yorkshire Evening Post (James Mitchinson) over the 'Jack photo' and what has happened and the YP has done since on the Fake News tweets - as were shared by many including Allison Pearson - that stated the picture was staged. It was the YP that first published the story. Fascinating insight into the struggles of such as the YP against Fake News and trying to educate and inform their readers about the story and why the fake news was fake.

Can be listened to on Global Player catch up from about 11:30am.

The state of British politics.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1204183081009262592

 

[Deleted member 21258]

No I am aware of the credit issues, and without sounding "holier than thou" the current system of freely allowing people to take credit without understanding the consequences are the issue.
Masses of profit are generated off the back of credit deals, but very few people view them for what they are .. which is basically making someone rich for doing nothing. We have a consumer society fueled by the media and this is very hard to resist and this is the downward spiral.

I do love the phrases "drink responsibly", "bet responsibly" etc.. we have banned smoking advertising for me this is no worse than gambling and drinking ... all of which I have enjoyed I cannot deny. The point being credit is as bad as gambling and those that are pushing it are on par with drug dealers (we still believe the drug dealer is the bad guy or do we think he is an honest soul making a business ?? )
So yes I hold the banks responsible completely as they took advantage of the weak.

I agree the unions played their part in the UK manufacturing downfall, but the management was the governments to do and they failed ..and they never set up to re-establish heavy industry. Seriously thinking it would go somewhere cheaper, yes it will, it will chase the low cost labour .. But we have never added tariffs or lobbied Europe to tariff that competition, nor have we made the effort to stymie the China steel situation which could have been done with purity levels.

The point is, this business government are just a bunch of blow hards who talk a good game but cannot play it .. I know hindsight is 20:20 vision but I have not witnessed any Tory government in recent history with any vision. I just hear excuses, down right lies and blaming others .. The Tories will get my vote when they change that and Labour or Liberal will lose my vote if they descend to this level.

Blaming the banks in the USA, in the previous post is just plain wrong if you have any knowledge. That is what Brown did and King also pretended no one could have seen it coming. People do need to be more responsible rather than just blaming 'the nasty banks' when asking for credit. Takes two to tango IMHO.

Any government could have made those changes you mention in the last 60 odd years, that you talk about....but have they, nope. Will they, probably not, unless you wish for someone like Trump in power,

Heres a question, have you setup your own business, run it successfully, employed people ? If you have did you help to correct any of the wrongs you mention in any of your previous posts? You could have setup a lending business, tried to re-establish an industry business, donated all your money, paid more tax to HMRC as a donation and so on etc ? Tax is a legal obligation, hence why there is a law about it and currency is legalised, so they can tax you.

I can assure you it is tough out there, in the real world trying to make a living, running a business, red tape everywhere and loads of private enterprise go to the wall due to it.

As a summary, if labour get in with all of its new regulations & taxes, the small owned managed/medium sizes businesses will be destroyed. Large business will leave, the rich will leave and only managed what they need from the UK. Then goes your jobs, then goes your tax revenues and a nasty downward trend goes on. And whatever Brexit does as well. Call it project fear if you like but I was one of the ones thinking of voting labour before reading the manifesto fully, it is truly frightening from a business point of view. and I was a neutral before.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

...and so what do the Brexit Party supporting electorate do when they do not have a Brexit Party candidate to vote for, and their hero Nigel is today again telling them that Johnson's deal is not Brexit, and that Johnson is basically lying when he says vote Tory to Get Brexit Done - because it won't be.

Oh I could LOL with Farage actually telling the truth about GBD - if it weren't so miserably depressing that these two charlatans have brought us to this mess.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I agree this is a really bad situation, and it's down to one thing only.
An exponential demand caused by an exponential increase in population.
I'm sure that if there had not been such an increase in demand , then the hospital could be coping. Because if they could not , it means that their efficiency and/or effort has quickly gone downhill. And the good people working in the NHS have not all got worse in skill or caring that quickly, nor IMO, at all.
If a wave of a magic wand could suddenly produce another exact same hospital nearby, then we all know there wouldn't be a problem. And whatever party gets in cannot achieve that. Things can't happen that quickly, but intentions can.
They need to try however, and it will mean some increase in funding, I.e taxation. It's time that Tory dogma stopped regarding the word taxation as anathema: however Labour should not see it as a permission to throw money about irresponsibly on undeserving schemes and people.
And both should ,at the same time , be realistic about allowing the unsustainable , unjustified, and quite honestly, stupid increase in the population of this Country.

Any successful person knows that dealing with success is as hard as dealing with failure the Tories have had 9 years of additional tax revenue by an expanding population and failed to manage it

 

[drdel]

Any successful person knows that dealing with success is as hard as dealing with failure the Tories have had 9 years of additional tax revenue by an expanding population and failed to manage it

A more careful check will show the population has grown faster than tax revenues.

 

[3offTheTee]

Ashworth did a great job for Tories today with guido. Potential next Labour/Tory Leader!

 

[Beezerk]

Yesterday was a very, very bad day for the Conservatives. The evening and night time news and even this mornings news is all about Boris, the hospital and his inept handling of it. He could have resolved it in 10 seconds. Instead, with 2 days until polling day he has had a car crash. Boy do they need to switch the agenda big time today. Yesterday could be huge for Labour if they can keep the story going.

And in a way it's a great shame that elections are now coming down to this US style popularity contest. People making their minds up how to vote from a 10 second TV clip rather than what the party stands for.
I'm trying for a Likely Lads style media blackout until Thursday night so I don't have to watch all this guff on the news ?

 

[SocketRocket]

Any successful person knows that dealing with success is as hard as dealing with failure the Tories have had 9 years of additional tax revenue by an expanding population and failed to manage it

What expanding tax revenue? There has been little or no increase in net revenue over those years but a great demand for use of state services. How on earth can anyone expect the nhs, schools, roads, housing, social services etc to keep pace with the biggest increase in population this country has ever experienced. People don't bring hospitals, schools, roads and houses with them when they come to the UK but they start consuming straight away especially England who have experienced the lions share of this increase, Increasing these services can't be carried out at the same rate as the equivalent of a major cities population being added each year.
People need to get their heads out the sand and their own backsides and stop being in denial of what's happening.
Unless the population is held in check so services can catch up then it's no good pointing fingers at each other and blinkering ourselves. The king is naked.

 

[drdel]

What expanding tax revenue? There has been little or no increase in net revenue over those years but a great demand for use of state services. How on earth can anyone expect the nhs, schools, roads, housing, social services etc to keep pace with the biggest increase in population this country has ever experienced. People don't bring hospitals, schools, roads and houses with them when they come to the UK and especially England who have experienced the lions share of this increase, Increasing these services can't be carried out at the same rate as the equivalent of a major cities population being added each year.
People need to get their heads out the sand and their own backsides and stop being in denial of what's happening.
Unless the population is held in check so services can catch up then it's no good pointing fingers at each other and blinkered ourselves. The king is naked.

Dft's post also misses the fact that babies and youngsters do not pay tax but are A heavy draw on the health service. It is also a fact that the birth rate has been higher among the lower socioeconomic groups who tend to be very low tax payers or recieve state aid.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Dft's post also misses the fact that babies and youngsters do not pay tax but are A heavy draw on the health service. It is also a fact that the birth rate has been higher among the lower socioeconomic groups who tend to be very low tax payers or recieve state aid.

During a decade........... some of the youngsters actually grow up to pay tax...…some youngsters and adults even graduate to higher tax earners and....the biggest surprise of all is that some of the pensioners actually die.
I call this phenomenon The Circle of Life.

 

[2blue]

Just think what it could be like if it wasn't for the majority of the Media being on his side.

The kings suit of clothes syndrome.

Hey-up... Dib, Dibber returns

 

[Doon frae Troon]

In the event of a hung Parliament do you think that any other party would consider siding with the Tories.

Looks like even the DUP would not touch them this shift. Brexit maybees manage one MP so they are out of the picture .
Not entirely up with the other NI parties. BJ is beginning to look a bit lonely.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

What expanding tax revenue? There has been little or no increase in net revenue over those years but a great demand for use of state services. How on earth can anyone expect the nhs, schools, roads, housing, social services etc to keep pace with the biggest increase in population this country has ever experienced. People don't bring hospitals, schools, roads and houses with them when they come to the UK but they start consuming straight away especially England who have experienced the lions share of this increase, Increasing these services can't be carried out at the same rate as the equivalent of a major cities population being added each year.
People need to get their heads out the sand and their own backsides and stop being in denial of what's happening.
Unless the population is held in check so services can catch up then it's no good pointing fingers at each other and blinkered ourselves. The king is naked.

So it’s migration that’s the issue funding to - NHS , Emergency services , schools etc

Don’t a good deal of migrants pay tax then ?

Is your constant finger pointing towards immigrants being the issue in regards the issues we face constitute “being in denial” about the issues caused by Tory cuts

 

[harpo_72]

Blaming the banks in the USA, in the previous post is just plain wrong if you have any knowledge. That is what Brown did and King also pretended no one could have seen it coming. People do need to be more responsible rather than just blaming 'the nasty banks' when asking for credit. Takes two to tango IMHO.

Yes it does ... but the lead partner defines the dance ! So yes the banks need to be regulated and penalised - when was the last time you saw a poor banker ? they don't exist they pass their issues on down the line and find someone else to pay. If you are struggling with them being held accountable have a little wander around the Rothchilds gaff - they have bling stuff for bling sake, it is a disgrace.

Any government could have made those changes you mention in the last 60 odd years, that you talk about....but have they, nope. Will they, probably not, unless you wish for someone like Trump in power,

No labour government has been able to deliver fully on their ideals, the electorate won't let them hence Blair was the most successful labour prime minister because he was a pragmatist. However the Tories have no interest in these changes it doesn't fit their agenda.

Heres a question, have you setup your own business, run it successfully, employed people ? If you have did you help to correct any of the wrongs you mention in any of your previous posts? You could have setup a lending business, tried to re-establish an industry business, donated all your money, paid more tax to HMRC as a donation and so on etc ? Tax is a legal obligation, hence why there is a law about it and currency is legalised, so they can tax you.

Yes, and no I don't need any direct employees, my skill is I am a specialist, you pay for me, not a copy. Did I over pay yes I did, I overpaid when the times were good because I knew the time would be bad and I may be unable to pay. Why would I set up a lending business? I would need a huge amount of assets to back it up, if I did not need to I could do it and make a comfortable living without hurting or jeopardizing other people... but I might not give them the amount they want and they would go elsewhere and get into trouble due to the lack of regulation.

I can assure you it is tough out there, in the real world trying to make a living, running a business, red tape everywhere and loads of private enterprise go to the wall due to it.

I am sure all the accountants are very happy and will vote for the extra revenue

As a summary, if labour get in with all of its new regulations & taxes, the small owned managed/medium sizes businesses will be destroyed.
Exaggeration, they won't leave they will develop survival strategies similar to those or shall we say not as severe as will be required for Brexit - you are actually telling me Brexit is better than Corbyn ?

Large business will leave, the rich will leave and only managed what they need from the UK.
Large business will leave with Brexit, not with Corbyn, as we still have a toe hold and low cost supply network - no evidence would suggest this, it's just another lie.

Then goes your jobs, then goes your tax revenues and a nasty downward trend goes on. And whatever Brexit does as well.
Look at the other high tax countries .. the engine room is the professional skilled people, they generate the tax via income and spending, organisations cannot cope with a loss of these people and they will pay higher wages to maintain them .. Luxembourg average wage is 77k Euros .. basic tax 38-45% depending on situation plus VAT liberally applied. Last time I was there they were in a fine state and their services were fantastic ! Companies realise they need people .. so in the end this statement of yours is a little negative.

Call it project fear if you like but I was one of the ones thinking of voting labour before reading the manifesto fully, it is truly frightening from a business point of view. and I was a neutral before.

Answers in blue, you and I both know that Corbyn wont get a majority, so we can safely say that his extremes will be curbed ... If the Tories get in and we do Brexit then we are in for some thing close to what you have described in my opinion .. looking forward to it already !