AND HERE WE GO - THE 2019 GENERAL ELECTION THREAD

[harpo_72]

I just don't understand why you are so intent on degrading those who express an opinion contrary to your own. There are fundamental differences in how a Brexit future may evolve than the policies that Labour has stated they wish to follow. My post explained the obvious evidence from the world of international business, the successful of which will not hang around if Labour treads the wrong path. Business have no emotion and will quickly change investment and location faced with an adverse set of policies in the UK - its primarily a question of confidence and it is clear that Labour does not enjoy the confidence of international businesses or indeed the investment community.

Business and nations economies run in cycles and it Labour to get the chance to enact their plans after a maximum of 3 years a down slide will transpire by which time there will be little confidence to fall back on and debt limits will inhibit borrowing.

I think you need to be very careful what you wish for they'll ( the London Labour elite) screw you and your kids/family.

The point is every compelling argument is dismissed by project fear ... so if we spread that dismissal fairly and liberally across any post you see that actually it’s a real annoying phrase .. so we need to revisit everything that was dismissed originally as project fear and show it some respect.

You may not have been playing the game and an unwitting victim of the game and I apologise.. but one does love a game. Especially when one gets rather good at it.

 

[harpo_72]

go troll someone else

No one has trolled you, I have not offered you any offensive emojis and I have not called you a name.
Next your be complaining about the care you got from the nhs or how bad the trains are or water prices ..

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Interesting slant on the recently Labour/Mirror release of the young lad asleep on a floor in hospital from an actual nurse at the hospital in question.

I said I was out, but apologies as I can’t ignore this one, first Wolf, it’s claimed by the women it’s from an actual nurse, it’s not the nurse herself.
I accept nowhere do you say it’s fact, just an “interesting slant”.

Surely before they put out the following statement they’d of checked the facts especially the bit I’ve highlighted, so for balance:

Dr Yvette Oade, Chief Medical Officer at Leeds Teaching Hospitals NHS Trust said: “Our hospitals are extremely busy at the moment and we are very sorry that Jack’s family had a long wait in our Emergency Department. Our Chief Executive Julian Hartley has spoken to Jack’s mum and offered a personal apology.
“We have seen a significant increase in the number of people visiting our Paediatric Emergency Department, and this week we saw the highest attendances we have seen since April 2016. Despite this, our staff are working tirelessly to provide the best possible care under these extreme pressures.
“Jack was quickly assessed upon arrival and seen in two different clinical treatment rooms in the Paediatric Emergency Department.


“Within four hours a decision was made to admit Jack to our Children’s Assessment and Treatment (CAT) Unit for further monitoring overnight. Unfortunately, the unit was also experiencing exceptionally high levels of demand which meant that Jack was required to wait in the clinical treatment room in the Paediatric Emergency Department until a bed became available. Jack was admitted to the CAT Unit later that evening and was discharged home the following morning after a medical review.
“We are extremely sorry that there were only chairs available in the treatment room, and no bed. This falls below our usual high standards, and for this we would like to sincerely apologise to Jack and his family.

 

[chrisd]

All in my opinion of course.

I probably share that opinion ?

 

[Wolf]

I said I was out, but apologies as I can’t ignore this one, first Wolf, it’s claimed by the women it’s from an actual nurse, it’s not the nurse herself.
I accept nowhere do you say it’s fact, just an “interesting slant”.

Surely before they put out the following statement they’d of checked the facts especially the bit I’ve highlighted, so for balance:

Dr Yvette Oade, Chief Medical Officer at Leeds Teaching Hospitals NHS Trust said: “Our hospitals are extremely busy at the moment and we are very sorry that Jack’s family had a long wait in our Emergency Department. Our Chief Executive Julian Hartley has spoken to Jack’s mum and offered a personal apology.
“We have seen a significant increase in the number of people visiting our Paediatric Emergency Department, and this week we saw the highest attendances we have seen since April 2016. Despite this, our staff are working tirelessly to provide the best possible care under these extreme pressures.
“Jack was quickly assessed upon arrival and seen in two different clinical treatment rooms in the Paediatric Emergency Department.


“Within four hours a decision was made to admit Jack to our Children’s Assessment and Treatment (CAT) Unit for further monitoring overnight. Unfortunately, the unit was also experiencing exceptionally high levels of demand which meant that Jack was required to wait in the clinical treatment room in the Paediatric Emergency Department until a bed became available. Jack was admitted to the CAT Unit later that evening and was discharged home the following morning after a medical review.
“We are extremely sorry that there were only chairs available in the treatment room, and no bed. This falls below our usual high standards, and for this we would like to sincerely apologise to Jack and his family.

As i said interesting slant, never did i claim to believe it true or untrue. But I do find it interesting a nurse making the claim she is against the parent.

 

[SocketRocket]

I just don't understand why you are so intent on degrading those who express an opinion contrary to your own. There are fundamental differences in how a Brexit future may evolve than the policies that Labour has stated they wish to follow. My post explained the obvious evidence from the world of international business, the successful of which will not hang around if Labour treads the wrong path. Business have no emotion and will quickly change investment and location faced with an adverse set of policies in the UK - its primarily a question of confidence and it is clear that Labour does not enjoy the confidence of international businesses or indeed the investment community.

Business and nations economies run in cycles and it Labour to get the chance to enact their plans after a maximum of 3 years a down slide will transpire by which time there will be little confidence to fall back on and debt limits will inhibit borrowing.

I think you need to be very careful what you wish for they'll ( the London Labour elite) screw you and your kids/family.

Re the bit in bold: It's what socialists do, they respond with personal attacks to being questioned or by people disagreeing with them. They just cannot compute anyone disagreeing with their beliefs so attempt to humiliate the opponent.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

As i said interesting slant, never did i claim to believe it true or untrue. But I do find it interesting a nurse making the claim she is against the parent.

I know you didn’t say true or untrue, but again the poster on facebook won’t name her “friend” (the senior nurse) in case she gets her in to trouble.
She obviously believes her “friend”
as know the facebook account has been deleted.

This time “I’m out out”

 

[Wolf]

I know you didn’t say true or untrue, but again the poster on facebook won’t name her “friend” (the senior nurse) in case she gets her in to trouble.
She obviously believes her “friend”

You or I can only speculate as to why she didnt name her, perhaps its because the friend doesnt want to be named, perhaps its because of social media policy at work that they can post general comment but not actively name staff etc. There are many variables could even be she purely does not like Labour, the bad press from story, doesn't like NHS being weaponised by politicians or so many other reasons.

I merely posted it because it seems odd to call out the parent especially if untrue, but maybe it does give another slant on the story we haven't heard about , also theres probably a level of irony in it that in believing her friend it shows just like the politicians there may well be an element of truth to both sides of the story but just how much is dependent on what actually gets believed by how we perceive things ourselves.

Problem is we see so much spin nowadays especially with this election from both the main protagonists its becoming hard for many to take impartial views without digs at others. This thread alone just today is proof of that.

 

[SocketRocket]

So it seems the little boy in hospital wasnt left to lie on some coats on the floor. Its not good that a bed wasnt available when he arrived but unfortunatly hospitals get overloaded at times and the staff have to set priorities, there may well have been other children with worse conditions, who knows.
I am getting really fed up with this deliberate policy of weaponising the NHS, its so obvious that labour are so desperate they have created a policy of looking for absolutely anything regarding the NHS that they can scare people with.

 

[Wolf]

So it seems the little boy in hospital wasnt left to lie on some coats on the floor. Its not good that a bed wasnt available when he arrived but unfortunatly hospitals get overloaded at times and the staff have to set priorities, there may well have been other children with worse conditions, who knows.
I am getting really fed up with this deliberate policy of weaponising the NHS, its so obvious that labour are so desperate they have created a policy of looking for absolutely anything regarding the NHS that they can scare people with.

Absolutely agree with you on that point. Yes the NHS needs more support as its usage is hit so hard, but imo this is one area all parties should seek common ground to protect and develop it and should be removed from being used as the tool in which to scaremonger or seek power.

 

[Hobbit]

Absolutely agree with you on that point. Yes the NHS needs more support as its usage is hit so hard, but imo this is one area all parties should seek common ground to protect and develop it and should be removed from being used as the tool in which to scaremonger or seek power.

i started off thinking I agree with you both on the weaponising bit. However, the NHS is in crisis. It’s in more than a mess. Doc’s appointments 4 weeks away, waiting lists longer than they’ve been for 10 years, record levels of ops cancelled at the last minute, A&E waits regularly over 4 hours, severe bed shortages.

No one can and should defend that mess.

The joke is long since over. Irrespective of which party is in power, weaponise it like a big stick and use that stick to beat 7 shades out of the party in power.

i know this might stick in some people’s craw but how about coming together on this one and demanding an NHS fit for purpose.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Absolutely agree with you on that point. Yes the NHS needs more support as its usage is hit so hard, but imo this is one area all parties should seek common ground to protect and develop it and should be removed from being used as the tool in which to scaremonger or seek power.

You could argue that about the economy, defense, social care, homelessness, education etc etc. So I'd argue the opposite, we have one of, if not the greatest health care system in the world if you are a member of the public, so too god damn right it should be pointed out what certain parties are doing to it and their plans for it in the future.

 

[Imurg]

So it seems the little boy in hospital wasnt left to lie on some coats on the floor. Its not good that a bed wasnt available when he arrived but unfortunatly hospitals get overloaded at times and the staff have to set priorities, there may well have been other children with worse conditions, who knows.
I am getting really fed up with this deliberate policy of weaponising the NHS, its so obvious that labour are so desperate they have created a policy of looking for absolutely anything regarding the NHS that they can scare people with.

Many, many hospital pediatric units are swamped with sick kids at the moment.
Stoke Mandeville's is currently running at 200% of capacity - yep, twice the usual number, all needing beds, treatment and medecines
They're opening vacant offices and any other rooms they can find to have somewhere to put these kids.
Nurses are working double shifts to try and keep up
And they're still coming.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So it seems the little boy in hospital wasnt left to lie on some coats on the floor. Its not good that a bed wasnt available when he arrived but unfortunatly hospitals get overloaded at times and the staff have to set priorities, there may well have been other children with worse conditions, who knows.

So has one random annoymous message on Facebook confirmed that was the case ?

And maybe these hospitals are being “overloaded” because of the reduction in fundings and staff levels because of those fundings over the past ten years

I am getting really fed up with this deliberate policy of weaponising the NHS, its so obvious that labour are so desperate they have created a policy of looking for absolutely anything regarding the NHS that they can scare people with.

They should be using the NHS as a weapon - they should highlight how poor it has been over the past ten years , they should highlight that it needs to be a priority

Millions rely on the NHS and something needs to change - it’s in Crisis right now and prob close to breaking point. Tories will point to “immigrants” to try and counter Labours argument about Mis management and poor funding.

The NHS is the greatest national service in the world and it’s something we should be proud off - but it’s needs sorting before it breaks and we all suffer because of that.

 

[ger147]

i started off thinking I agree with you both on the weaponising bit. However, the NHS is in crisis. It’s in more than a mess. Doc’s appointments 4 weeks away, waiting lists longer than they’ve been for 10 years, record levels of ops cancelled at the last minute, A&E waits regularly over 4 hours, severe bed shortages.

No one can and should defend that mess.

The joke is long since over. Irrespective of which party is in power, weaponise it like a big stick and use that stick to beat 7 shades out of the party in power.

i know this might stick in some people’s craw but how about coming together on this one and demanding an NHS fit for purpose.

We can demand all we like but ultimately it is our own fault because no-one would vote for a party who would propose introducing the tax rises required to pay for it.

As an example, if a party proposed introducing a flat 40% income tax rate and an additional 16% NI rate and in exchange was able to demonstrate that this would pay for an exceptional health service, first class education for all up to and including free university education, the best public services in the world etc. etc, etc. do you think they would sweep to power??? Not a cat in hell's chance!!!

No one would vote for that big a wage cut. Everyone wants the best education, health service, public services etc. but they all want someone else to pay for it. The working class want the rich to pay more, better off folk want the big companies to be hammered and also question why so many people not working get cash. The super rich avoid tax like the plague etc.

As long as we continue to vote for the same old parties populated with the same old politicians with the same old policies, we will get the same outcome. Successive UK goverments from both main parties continually spend more than we earn every year, hence we still run a budget deficit, but they daren't raise taxes to close the gap or they wouldn't get re-elected. And so the cycle continues.

The NHS is a great example. Taxes in Norway are WAY higher than they are here but their Health Service is still NOT free. So if they can't afford for it to be free for everyone at their level of taxation, why on earth do we think it can be free when our taxation levels are so much lower???

I'm not suggesting the NHS should no longer be free, what I am saying is if we all want it to continue to be free for everyone, we need some honest debate about how much it really costs for the level of service we demand and how it should be paid for.

 

[harpo_72]

You could argue that about the economy, defense, social care, homelessness, education etc etc. So I'd argue the opposite, we have one of, if not the greatest health care system in the world if you are a member of the public, so too god damn right it should be pointed out what certain parties are doing to it and their plans for it in the future.

None of the public owned items should have been up for privatisation.. legislation should be past to prevent it

 

[patricks148]

suprised this wasn't mentioned esp after mister Right wing poster stuck it up like a shot last night, notice he's deleted it now though. But thats not my point, Kuensberg was on this like flies on yoiu know what show the type of journalist she is load a clear, back tracking now though

https://twitter.com/x/status/1204091610843226112

 

[chrisd]

None of the public owned items should have been up for privatisation.. legislation should be past to prevent it

Parts of the NHS have been privatised since back in the Blair days. It's strange that, according to some on here, that the NHS has only gone downhill in the past 10 years, but I guess that just suits the anti Tory narrative

 

[Beezerk]

it’s in Crisis right now and prob close to breaking point. Tories will point to “immigrants” .

Interesting rant again.
I'm happy to be proven wrong, but on my travels it's actually the more deprived traditionally Labour constituencies who have stated the immigration line for hospitals etc being at breaking point.
It's easy for you to flip it to suit your anti Tory agenda but in this particular case I think you're way off the mark.

 

[harpo_72]

We can demand all we like but ultimately it is our own fault because no-one would vote for a party who would propose introducing the tax rises required to pay for it.

As an example, if a party proposed introducing a flat 40% income tax rate and an additional 16% NI rate and in exchange was able to demonstrate that this would pay for an exceptional health service, first class education for all up to and including free university education, the best public services in the world etc. etc, etc. do you think they would sweep to power??? Not a cat in hell's chance!!!

No one would vote for that big a wage cut. Everyone wants the best education, health service, public services etc. but they all want someone else to pay for it. The working class want the rich to pay more, better off folk want the big companies to be hammered and also question why so many people not working get cash. The super rich avoid tax like the plague etc.

As long as we continue to vote for the same old parties populated with the same old politicians with the same old policies, we will get the same outcome. Successive UK goverments from both main parties continually spend more than we earn every year, hence we still run a budget deficit, but they daren't raise taxes to close the gap or they wouldn't get re-elected. And so the cycle continues.

The NHS is a great example. Taxes in Norway are WAY higher than they are here but their Health Service is still NOT free. So if they can't afford for it to be free for everyone at their level of taxation, why on earth do we think it can be free when our taxation levels are so much lower???

I'm not suggesting the NHS should no longer be free, what I am saying is if we all want it to continue to be free for everyone, we need some honest debate about how much it really costs for the level of service we demand and how it should be paid for.

I think you hit the nail in the head.
Although I would add, just double check the minimum and average wages in those countries and the deficit is not so hideous. The wages go up because as people point out the skills will depart. The engine room of the economy is the professional skilled labour and they are the people you want to keep. Not just for your taxes but to maintain your society.