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AND HERE WE GO - THE 2019 GENERAL ELECTION THREAD

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harpo_72 said:
I spent the majority of my life in Kent. I know the political lay of the land. The views expressed by ChrisD are quite common and i know you don’t like it .. but are very similar to the EDL.
Oh and incidentally when was the last time you saw the EDL in action? They have their skin head faction but they also have their overweight middle aged men in polo shirts and shorts faction.
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I'd like, in my own defence, to point out that my views are expressed quite commonly on the forum by people from all over the country, and to hold conservative values over labour ones doesn't make me an EDL, Brexit Party, Fascist or any other radical party supporter. I just know that despite being bought up in a council house in Croydon in very poor circumstances that over my 67 years the Tory Party is, and generally has been, by far the best party to run the country economically. My opinion of course, but I'd point out that other opinions are available
 
PhilTheFragger said:
Personal comments like this have no place on these boards.

Please resist the temptation yourselves or I will have to supply the resistance myself
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I’m not shocked that you picked my comment in particular to highlight this yet despite what I’ve said being based purely on someone’s political views in a political thread. Yet I was called a dick and that was fine and passed without comment. Play the ball, not the man.
 
SocketRocket said:
So you are suggesting you are always right. I would suggest you are showing yourself up as something much worse than that.
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What an odd thing to say - who holds an opinion they think isn’t right? You wouldn’t hold that opinion if not. What an incredibly strange stance.
 
harpo_72 said:
I spent the majority of my life in Kent. I know the political lay of the land. The views expressed by ChrisD are quite common and i know you don’t like it .. but are very similar to the EDL.
Oh and incidentally when was the last time you saw the EDL in action? They have their skin head faction but they also have their overweight middle aged men in polo shirts and shorts faction.
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I don't get to see EDL in action as im not a facist islamaphobic moron so sadly I think they'd reject me.

Also think you need consider there are many people here alone on thia forum that express views you suggest that are from all over the country and not a single county. Also i am from Kent was born there in one of the worst known council estates outside of London in a family that was hugely hit by the recession yet won't see me voting Labour because of their manifesto is a nothing short of a fairy tale, you won't see me voting Tory because I don't believe in their values or there promises of their manifesto either yet out of the 2 big parties they are the better of the 2 currently.
 
chrisd said:
How about an alternative view Paul

Boris gets a working majority and we leave the EU 31st January
We agree a Canada ++ deal inside a year
We sort out some tariff free deals to take up supply of expensive EU products
We run our own country
Labour get rid of Corbyn, McDonnell etc al, so become a proper opposition who could govern
Boris proves the naysayers wrong and runs the country well
Scotland tell Wee Krankie that they'd rather not leave the Union as it's doing very well
Trump loses his election

Alls well with the world
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I'd say 2, 3 at a push might happen.

To me it's more likely we turn into a deruglated economic wild west with workers rights getting even more eroded. Nothing has value anymore but just a price, society becomes even more fractured and divided as the gaps in society between those with and without will just get bigger and bigger.

Our leaders become ever more populist and are mostly interested in power itself and staying in power. They become more and more willing to mislead, avoid scrutiny, peddle increasingly unbelievable fantasies and easy answers to deliberately fool people to get them to vote for them, at times out right lie and set parts of the nation against itself to get power. And the concept of governing for the whole nation becomes ever more irrelevant. But then again I am a bit of a glass half empty guy and may have been reading too much about US politics recently ....
 
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Wolf said:
I don't get to see EDL in action as im not a facist islamaphobic moron so sadly I think they'd reject me.

Also think you need consider there are many people here alone on thia forum that express views you suggest that are from all over the country and not a single county. Also i am from Kent was born there in one of the worst known council estates outside of London in a family that was hugely hit by the recession yet won't see me voting Labour because of their manifesto is a nothing short of a fairy tale, you won't see me voting Tory because I don't believe in their values or there promises of their manifesto either yet out of the 2 big parties they are the better of the 2 currently.
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Not brought up on a council estate, but went through the recession of the nineties and family lost everything. They are still recovering now.
This election has turned me away from blindly voting for one party. I to would never vote Tory, however if they did something that met my criteria then I would.
I know that there are other parties represented in Kent but the point was the Tory views were very close to EDL. The centre Tory vote is few and far between and the liberals have benefited.
The damming endorsement of the EDL to vote Tory shows that they feel they are represented. I know some have chosen to distance themselves from that and have stated they don’t care for Tommy’s opinions, however they then go on to espouse the same views with little dilution.
Plus we have not seen or heard of how leaving the EU is going to stop illegal immigration?? Come on, everyone is avoiding answering that question because the reality is it’s a U.K. issue to resolve.
 
chrisd said:
Possibly you could just indulge me, and point out which of my views are similar to the EDL, a group that I'm not personally familiar with in mid Kent
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Nah, I won’t waste my time trawling through your posts, you know what you have posted. As you say it’s your opinion and your entitled to it as I am entitled to label it and pigeon hole it.
Now would you be so kind as to post a picture of the first tee at Canterbury?
 
harpo_72 said:
Nah, I won’t waste my time trawling through your posts, you know what you have posted. As you say it’s your opinion and your entitled to it as I am entitled to label it and pigeon hole it.
Now would you be so kind as to post a picture of the first tee at Canterbury?
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it's on their website

https://www.canterburygolfclub.co.uk


second picture down , 3 guys walking up the hill. ?
 
It seems that the Scots Tories think that by being invisible gives them more chance of winning votes.:love:
4 days to voting and my wife still does not know the name of the Tory party candidate,
I only found out who he was by looking him up on the Scots Tory website.
It seems like we are not alone as Craig Murray is blogging similar thoughts.
Do any Scots guys/gals on here know who their Tory candidate is ?
 
drdel said:
B---s...t - I know a wack of nurses who love their job and the people they work with.
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Of course there are many nurses who love their job and the colleagues they work with - and you know some of them - but I was not talking about them as they are not the ones in scope of Johnson's cunning plan.

Have you spoken to many who are going to be 'taking their lump sum' and triggering their nurses pension in the next five years? Have you talked to many who are so sick of the pressures and hassles that they cannot wait to find another job and leave the NHS? These are the 19,000. And if my experience of speaking to some in the former group (a dozen of my wife's close nursing friends) and hearing from my wife on the latter - it's going to have to be some promise and offer to make many of either group change their mind. Many if not most in both of these groups are desperate to leave the NHS. No realistic offer will work.

My wife (near 40yrs total commitment to the NHS as a general nurse, midwife and breast cancer nurse specialist) said over the weekend then she would not, under any circumstances, consider a return to the NHS. She is so relieved to be out. New and young nurses? The experience my wife and her colleagues have of many is that they just want to get up the ladder as quickly as possible - getting away from the tough coal face as quickly as possible. So who is going to be working the coal face? EU27 immigrants?

I fear that many do not understand the cancer that has eaten away at the core of the NHS - that core being nurses and doctors unflinching in their commitment to doing the very best for patients - supported by their colleagues. That core has been eaten away and the NHS is on the verge of collapse as a result. Some politicians are honest about this - others pretend that the NHS can be sorted without the public having to go into their pockets and pay. Politicians need to get honest and up front about the serious problems facing the NHS - many brought about by the absurd expectations of us the public and the abuse and complaints NHS staff are on the receiving end of because they just cannot meet these expectations. Mrs Hogie has just started work on a cancer charity helpline. many if not most of the calls she takes involve complaints about the service provided by NHS! And she knows that the NHS staff struggle every day to meet what these callers/patients expect.

This weekend my wife met with a group of 5 close nursing friends - all in the 50s - two retired the other three desperate to leave as soon as possible - all were of the view that there was nothing that could make them stay or return. Going forward they felt that there has to be a serious public information exercise (TV Public Information films etc) - educating us about the NHS; explaining the problems and issues; and on how we can work with the NHS to reduce the pressure that has built on it over the last couple of decades in particular. The message to us about the NHS has to be hammered home.

Johnson's retained and rehired 19,000 is - it would seem - a fantasy of epic proportions.

Sorting the NHS is going to take multiple parliaments - it can be sorted - the Public has two parts to play. Pay more in our taxes - lower and reset our expectations; and understand how we can get what we need in a different way from simply piling along to A&E or by trying and see our GP.
 
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harpo_72 said:
Nah, I won’t waste my time trawling through your posts, you know what you have posted. As you say it’s your opinion and your entitled to it as I am entitled to label it and pigeon hole it.
Now would you be so kind as to post a picture of the first tee at Canterbury?
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you make some bizare and unfounded points. Nothing Chris has said is racist or in any to suggest a loyality to the EDL. Supporing Torries as a party that can better manage the economy than Labour is his view and one i agree with for various reasons to do with labour's willingness to spend what we do not have and the resulting implications of that policy, and the affinity for unions and what damage they can do when making unreasonable demands - both factors very evident in the 70s when unions destroyed our industrial base and we went cap in hand to the IMF for a bailout. Also, going with this is the ability to fund social services over time through this strategy of economic management - all of which i am in favour of but totally understand that many areas have been stretched too far with the cuts that were necessary due to a 10% budget defecit inhertited from Labour - could some of these policies have been relaxed over the past four or five years - definitely yes - but hopefully that strategy is now on the table from the very middle-of the road One Nation Tory manifesto. Supporting Conservative due to their economic policies is not being agaisnt social policies, it is a belief that they social agenda's will also be able to be managed better overall be being prudent with the purse strings
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Of course there are many nurses who love their job and the colleagues they work with - and you know some of them - but I was not talking about them as they are not the ones in scope of Johnson's cunning plan.

Have you spoken to many who are going to be 'taking their lump sum' and triggering their nurses pension in the next five years? Have you talked to many who are so sick of the pressures and hassles that they cannot wait to find another job and leave the NHS? These are the 19,000. And if my experience of speaking to some in the former group (a dozen of my wife's close nursing friends) and hearing from my wife on the latter - it's going to have to be some promise and offer to make many of either group change their mind. Many if not most in both of these groups are desperate to leave the NHS. No realistic offer will work.

My wife (near 40yrs total commitment to the NHS as a general nurse, midwife and breast cancer nurse specialist) said over the weekend then she would not, under any circumstances, consider a return to the NHS. She is so relieved to be out. New and young nurses? The experience my wife and her colleagues have of many is that they just want to get up the ladder as quickly as possible - getting away from the tough coal face as quickly as possible. So who is going to be working the coal face? EU27 immigrants?

I fear that many do not understand the cancer that has eaten away at the core of the NHS - that core being nurses and doctors unflinching in their commitment to doing the very best for patients - supported by their colleagues. That core has been eaten away and the NHS is on the verge of collapse as a result. Some politicians are honest about this - others pretend that the NHS can be sorted without the public having to go into their pockets and pay. Politicians need to get honest and up front about the serious problems facing the NHS - many brought about by the absurd expectations of us the public and the abuse and complaints NHS staff are on the receiving end of because they just cannot meet these expectations. Mrs Hogie has just started work on a cancer charity helpline. many if not most of the calls she takes involve complaints about the service provided by NHS! And she knows that the NHS staff struggle every day to meet what these callers/patients expect.

This weekend my wife met with a group of 5 close nursing friends - all in the 50s - two retired the other three desperate to leave as soon as possible - all were of the view that there was nothing that could make them stay or return. Going forward they felt that there has to be a serious public information exercise (TV Public Information films etc) - educating us about the NHS; explaining the problems and issues; and on how we can work with the NHS to reduce the pressure that has built on it over the last couple of decades in particular. The message to us about the NHS has to be hammered home.

Johnson's retained and rehired 19,000 is - it would seem - a fantasy of epic proportions.

Sorting the NHS is going to take multiple parliaments - it can be sorted - the Public has two parts to play. Pay more in our taxes - lower and reset our expectations; and understand how we can get what we need in a different way from simply piling along to A&E or by trying and see our GP.
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I also see similar issues in teaching/education. Promises about throwing x billion here and y billon there to recruit 10 trillion teachers is all good, and of course an injection of cash after starving schools of money in recent years is of course appreciated. But you also need to tackle other issues, for example the Tories sneakily announcing they want to do no notice Ofsted inspections and lengthen the period of inspections after the manifesto came out is just silly.

The Tories obsession with league tables, data and testing primary pupils on the type of grammar that 16 year olds used to be taught in grammar schools in the 50s has caused a lot of problems. Luckily things are slowly beginning to change as there is not more emphasis on a whole curriculum and not testing 9 year olds to within an inch of their lives on stuff that is just not needed in the 21st century, but these things take time and not much I have seen from the last 10 years fills me with optimism for the future of our education system if the Tories get back in.

But then again Labour goes and misses an open goal with silly stuff about closing down private school and academies and removing Ofsted completely, which will cause massive amounts of chaos in the education system (heads up to labour, if private schools are closed down then all that will happen is that the parents of private school pupils will mostly game the system and buy houses near good schools forcing other families out of the catchment area). As with a lot of areas we seem to veer between one extreme to the other with the main parties.
 
PNWokingham said:
you make some bizare and unfounded points. Nothing Chris has said is racist or in any to suggest a loyality to the EDL. Supporing Torries as a party that can better manage the economy than Labour is his view and one i agree with for various reasons to do with labour's willingness to spend what we do not have and the resulting implications of that policy, and the affinity for unions and what damage they can do when making unreasonable demands - both factors very evident in the 70s when unions destroyed our industrial base and we went cap in hand to the IMF for a bailout. Also, going with this is the ability to fund social services over time through this strategy of economic management - all of which i am in favour of but totally understand that many areas have been stretched too far with the cuts that were necessary due to a 10% budget defecit inhertited from Labour - could some of these policies have been relaxed over the past four or five years - definitely yes - but hopefully that strategy is now on the table from the very middle-of the road One Nation Tory manifesto. Supporting Conservative due to their economic policies is not being agaisnt social policies, it is a belief that they social agenda's will also be able to be managed better overall be being prudent with the purse strings
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Do you genuinely believe the current Tory party is 'one nation middle of the road' in terms of its politics? And that budget deficit was nothing to do with the global economic crash that occurred in the noughties? And that only labour are promising fanciful spending plans? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50585818
 
Hacker Khan said:
Do you genuinely believe the current Tory party is 'one nation middle of the road' in terms of its politics? And that budget deficit was nothing to do with the global economic crash that occurred in the noughties? And that only labour are promising fanciful spending plans? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50585818
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of course the budget defecit was caused by the financial crises - but i blame labour for the level of it as Gordon Brown was spending financed through borrowing during the boom naughties rather than being more restrained with the purse strings and running a budget, as per normal economic cycles of the type that were normal until 2008.

And yes - what is not "one nation" about the tory programme - increased borrowing for may areas of the economy, spending for investment at the expense of fiscal prudence, tax cuts aimed at lower incomes etc. Tell me where you think the current manifesto is driven by the tory right? This is a very middle market manifesto completely unlike Labour, that is so far to the left it is further west than Venezuela!
 
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Hacker Khan said:
But then again Labour goes and misses an open goal with silly stuff about closing down private school and academies and removing Ofsted completely, which will cause massive amounts of chaos in the education system (heads up to labour, if private schools are closed down then all that will happen is that the parents of private school pupils will mostly game the system and buy houses near good schools forcing other families out of the catchment area). As with a lot of areas we seem to veer between one extreme to the other with the main parties.
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yes indeed...... As my granddad said, "they are all no bloody good!"

Boris is getting away with stuff for the primary reason of "not being Corbyn."
 
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