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AND HERE WE GO - THE 2019 GENERAL ELECTION THREAD

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SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Well I'm afraid that isn't clear from what you posted - or perhaps just a little ambiguous.

Time for Red Jezza to go back to the Ruskies and ask for clarity on the leaked 500 pages of nothing!!

Anyway - the document is real and it sets out trade negotiation possibilities - one of which could be having to buy US drugs at a higher cost to the NHS than cost today of the equivalent drug.
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don't be so utterly niaive as to think we will start paying more for drugs - any extra competition will omnly force prices down
 
Swinglowandslow said:
Reading your last sentence, what makes you think that what I have said is a knee jerk reaction? I have been of this opinion for years, that we are allowing the innocent public to be risked because of namby pamby sentencing of criminals. It's not their fault, the liberals say, they are good if you give them the chance. Don't lock them up, there must be another way. It's a risk the public should accept. Excuse after excuse ad nauseum.
And are you really advocating the uncontrolled, unlimited immigration into this small Country whose resources have been stretched for years.
This country has been full up for many a year, we cannot keep the population rising the way it has been . Policies over years to get votes
which encourage high birth rates , etc.
Doctors and hospitals overstretched year on year, schools the same.
One reason - Too many people.
So, no , not a knee jerk reaction . I am not a young man. I have seen this country slide from a promising egalitarian era just after the war, when it could have been made into a good place to live, and when fairness and respect for society was instilled into us .
There were opportunities for us young people to make a home etc, which we did, if we wanted to, but now, the young are stymied . They are forced to live on a precipice of debt, to the point where they begin to think it is the proper way to be. They are not enough of them educated properly, in knowledge nor consideration for society . It's becoming every man for himself. What it has now become is dismaying
so, you can be assured that my views are not "a knee jerk reaction"
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Well put. Many people dont understand the trade off between high population levels and quality of life. As the population increases there is bound to be stress put on the services we have built up over time that cannot be multiplied at the same rate as the population increases by many millions over a short timeframe, population rises and quality of life overall has to reduce.

People coming into the country and those subsequently being born to them don't bring hospitals, doctors surgeries, roads, public transport, power stations and houses with them, they have to be consumers of what is already here as its impossible to replicate the services our tax has supplied over many, many years.

There will no doubt be cries of this post being racist and that kind of accusation and thinking is the blind cause of why things get progressively worse. We always had a level of immigration and it was at levels that could be absorbed such that it never put these essential services under undue strain. The damage has now been done and cant be undone, all we can hope is that the trend can be slowed.
 
Swinglowandslow said:
Reading your last sentence, what makes you think that what I have said is a knee jerk reaction? I have been of this opinion for years, that we are allowing the innocent public to be risked because of namby pamby sentencing of criminals. It's not their fault, the liberals say, they are good if you give them the chance. Don't lock them up, there must be another way. It's a risk the public should accept. Excuse after excuse ad nauseum.
And are you really advocating the uncontrolled, unlimited immigration into this small Country whose resources have been stretched for years.
This country has been full up for many a year, we cannot keep the population rising the way it has been . Policies over years to get votes
which encourage high birth rates , etc.
Doctors and hospitals overstretched year on year, schools the same.
One reason - Too many people.
So, no , not a knee jerk reaction . I am not a young man. I have seen this country slide from a promising egalitarian era just after the war, when it could have been made into a good place to live, and when fairness and respect for society was instilled into us .
There were opportunities for us young people to make a home etc, which we did, if we wanted to, but now, the young are stymied . They are forced to live on a precipice of debt, to the point where they begin to think it is the proper way to be. They are not enough of them educated properly, in knowledge nor consideration for society . It's becoming every man for himself. What it has now become is dismaying
so, you can be assured that my views are not "a knee jerk reaction"
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You’ve moved the goalposts, your initial post which I answered was in response to keeping us safe and terrorists coming from abroad, the knee jerk I spoke off is people believing these terrorists are all immigrants and the link I posted was to show the majority are actually homegrown.
We’ve had immigration controls over the last 10yrs of tory rule and it’s made no difference.
My last sentence was generic about the political knee jerk soundbites, again I’ll ask, why didn’t the tory party bring in these tough sentences and improve our borders over the last 10yrs when they’ve had a majority?
Instead we’ve seen cut upon cut to the Armed Forces, Police, Justice System, Probation Service etc and suffered terrorist attacks, all while claiming to be the party of law and order.
So instead of once again attacking Labour’s plans, we should be asking the tory party why they have failed us.

As for immigration, you may wish to read the Labour Manifesto because no where do they suggest uncontrolled, unlimited immigration in to this Country! They’ve promised to keep the EU freedom of movement and why not? It’s been proved time and tine again EU citizens contribute more to the Country in revenue than we pay them in benefits.

Edit: Just a bit more info.
EDD1A56D-24CE-4225-A450-FCF850CEBE31.jpeg
 
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Personal feeling with a week to go...

Obviously a lot of polls are predicting a reasonable Tory majority... possibly the biggest they've had since '87.

Problem for them is thus;
They are relying on a realignment somewhat of their core vote and they need to pick up votes and seats from Labour in the midlands and the North as well as try to limit the damage in the South and Scotland.

On the day, they are probably relying on a lot of people to cast their vote for the Conservatives for the 1st time ever. And / or cast their vote for the Conservatives despite being completely unaligned with them on the main issue of the day, Brexit.

Personally feel there is a lot that could go wrong with this on the day and a lot of people can't bring themselves to do it and vote another way, or stay at home. Especially if they feel the Conservatives are going to win anyway and their vote doesn't really matter.

I also think tactical voting can and will work against them as there are enough Labour + Lib Dem + Greens who might well decide to vote tactically on the day and could freeze them out of 8 to 12 key marginals. This could make it very tough for the Conservatives to win a majority, even if they have a decent overall lead of 6% or 7%. I also think we will see the SNP do very well in Scotland where a lot of people accept they have to lend them their vote to lock the Tories out, but would never consider themselves SNP or pro-independence, and will probably never admit to having voted the way they did.

And of course we come to the polls from 2 years ago, when they almost all massively over estimated the Conservative lead. Wisdom now is that they underweighted the younger and poorer voters who turned out on the day to get Labour up to above 40%. Have they made that mistake again?
 
PNWokingham said:
on what twisted and utterly illogical outcome do you think that would happen. The prices US citizens pay for drugs are eye wattering - we are far ahead in this and it will not change
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My post/thoughts were prompted by recent items I'd read in The Times... Can't see them knowingly print anti tory 'stuff'... Believe team USA will feel they'll have the upper hand in negotiations as we will be perceived as attending in full begging bowl mode... Basically they'll be shouting jump and our expected response will be HOW HIGH?!!

And, experience of American business folk is that their 'normal' operating mode is full on arrogant...
 
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MegaSteve said:
My post/thoughts were prompted by recent items I'd read in The Times... Can't see them knowingly print anti tory 'stuff'... Believe team USA will feel they'll have the upper hand in negotiations as we will be perceived as attending in full begging bowl mode... Basically they'll be shouting jump and our expected response will be HOW HIGH?!!
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Dominic Raab confirmed yesterday US Drug Companies could increase drug prices under any trade deal after Brexit.
 
pauldj42 said:
You’ve moved the goalposts, your initial post which I answered was in response to keeping us safe and terrorists coming from abroad, the knee jerk I spoke off is people believing these terrorists are all immigrants and the link I posted was to show the majority are actually homegrown.
We’ve had immigration controls over the last 10yrs of tory rule and it’s made no difference.
My last sentence was generic about the political knee jerk soundbites, again I’ll ask, why didn’t the tory party bring in these tough sentences and improve our borders over the last 10yrs when they’ve had a majority?
Instead we’ve seen cut upon cut to the Armed Forces, Police, Justice System, Probation Service etc and suffered terrorist attacks, all while claiming to be the party of law and order.
So instead of once again attacking Labour’s plans, we should be asking the tory party why they have failed us.

As for immigration, you may wish to read the Labour Manifesto because no where do they suggest uncontrolled, unlimited immigration in to this Country! They’ve promised to keep the EU freedom of movement and why not? It’s been proved time and tine again EU citizens contribute more to the Country in revenue than we pay them in benefits.

Edit: Just a bit more info.
View attachment 28680
Click to expand...

Maybe the Tories slashed the Border Force because they thought they weren't needed so much with freedom of movement allowed. They are now in the process of putting them back in place because we can now truely have CONTROL OF OUR BORDERS (hopefully) after Dec 12th. I would say that ALL immigration should be stopped with immediate effect. We cannot possibly sustain the population with our current infrastructure. We need 20 years of sorting this out before we can allow any more people in. Jesus the roads in my little town are full with cars from 7am to 7pm. The hospital car park is full 24/7! The leisure centre is almost impossible to get into. Tesco's are making a fortune with 3 outlets in the town with the main one rammed 8am to 8pm.
 
Colonel Bogey said:
Maybe the Tories slashed the Border Force because they thought they weren't needed so much with freedom of movement allowed. They are now in the process of putting them back in place because we can now truely have CONTROL OF OUR BORDERS (hopefully) after Dec 12th. I would say that ALL immigration should be stopped with immediate effect. We cannot possibly sustain the population with our current infrastructure. We need 20 years of sorting this out before we can allow any more people in. Jesus the roads in my little town are full with cars from 7am to 7pm. The hospital car park is full 24/7! The leisure centre is almost impossible to get into. Tesco's are making a fortune with 3 outlets in the town with the main one rammed 8am to 8pm.
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How does any of that solve the problem with homegrown terrorism?
 
Colonel Bogey said:
Maybe the Tories slashed the Border Force because they thought they weren't needed so much with freedom of movement allowed. They are now in the process of putting them back in place because we can now truely have CONTROL OF OUR BORDERS (hopefully) after Dec 12th. I would say that ALL immigration should be stopped with immediate effect. We cannot possibly sustain the population with our current infrastructure. We need 20 years of sorting this out before we can allow any more people in. Jesus the roads in my little town are full with cars from 7am to 7pm. The hospital car park is full 24/7! The leisure centre is almost impossible to get into. Tesco's are making a fortune with 3 outlets in the town with the main one rammed 8am to 8pm.
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but in that time the border force was cut the UK has had more imigration from outside the EU.
 
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Looking at the South of Scotland Tory belt I cannot see many Tories surviving.
My constituency had a less than useless one term Tory MP who is not defending.
It was a former Tory stronghold now split three ways with Labour/SNP.
I had to search around in the local press for the name of the new Tory candidate, 8 days before an election :unsure:
Local SNP candidate looks strong. He is a retired ex Met Det Inspector.
SNP have sent out loads of stuff, absolutely nothing from Labour or Tories. Only posters/banners I see around are for the SNP.
D&G looks like a close thing with the new Scottish Secretary enjoying a lot of publicity in a strong farming area.
Brexit still the No1 issue, closer here than in the less rural areas.
 
Too much immigration from anywhere is bad , saying there has been more from outside the EU doesn't make any difference. It all needs cutting back wherever it comes from, Conservatives and Labour are guilty for letting it get to unsustainable numbers.
 
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Grant85 said:
I also think we will see the SNP do very well in Scotland where a lot of people accept they have to lend them their vote to lock the Tories out, but would never consider themselves SNP or pro-independence, and will probably never admit to having voted the way they did.
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I've been canvassing for the first time in my life, such is my determination to oust Andrew Bowie who has been a useless MP. Despite this being a long time Lib-Dem seat (boundary changes have altered it somewhat), West Aberdeenshire & kincardine is a massive 2 horse race, I've literally not hit upon a single Labour or Green, and a tiny handful of Lib-Dems. There's a clear tactical vote going on, those that don't want Brexit going SNP, those that don't want independence going Tory, and little left in the middle.
 
Owen sums things up pretty well.

theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/02/tory-lies-democracy-labour-danger?fbclid=IwAR1u5Ds8rqax3cBSfpcIq3bFAFsbk9itaNzwJmn-qqmLrwSZ5DcQaZ-G2t8
 
HughJars said:
I've been canvassing for the first time in my life, such is my determination to oust Andrew Bowie who has been a useless MP. Despite this being a long time Lib-Dem seat (boundary changes have altered it somewhat), West Aberdeenshire & kincardine is a massive 2 horse race, I've literally not hit upon a single Labour or Green, and a tiny handful of Lib-Dems. There's a clear tactical vote going on, those that don't want Brexit going SNP, those that don't want independence going Tory, and little left in the middle.
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Yes - agree, I've seen anecdotal instances on social media that I'm certain were No voters in 2014 and would never publicly admit to voting SNP, saying about 'this is a tough decision' and 'never thought I'd vote this way' etc. Not sure if this would be picked up in national polling or if it will move very late.

Arguably the SNP could have played to this section more and toned down the indyref2 chat and possibly made it easier for people to support them solely on an EU ticket, but they've stuck to their guns and ultimately have a stronger mandate if they do win 40+ seats.

Thing I've been talking up to folk in work (who aren't SNP) is that this is realistically the ONLY chance we now have to stop Brexit. Ultimately we have to ensure the Tories don't get a majority, and ideally miss it by at least dozen or so. If the Tories have a majority, it's all over and Boris can and will do what he wants. So if you want to stop Brexit you have to vote for the candidate best placed to beat the Conservative in that seat. In all 13 Tory held Scottish seats, that is the SNP. In most English seats, it's Labour with a few dozen Lib Dem seats and a handful of Green / independents.

Also Hugh, in your case, Andrew Bowie has a very healthy majority (very very healthy for Scotland) and it would def take a lot of 2017 Tories to stay at home or vote SNP in order for him to lose. One thing is sure, if the SNP do gain that seat, it's been a very bad night for the Conservatives in Scotland.
 
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