AND HERE WE GO - THE 2019 GENERAL ELECTION THREAD

[Piece]

We had a leaflet from the Conservative and unionist party though the door today, not a single policy, all it is is slagging off the SNP, Labour and the Libs...

We have had daily leaflets from the Lib Dem party through the door. All slagging off Tory and Brexit parties...

They are all at it. Constant leaflet dropping from the LDs. I hope all this marketing is netted off environmentally.

 

[harpo_72]

I also think we are all also partly culpable as we accept what is said by many biased sources or refer back to what happened years, or in some cases decades ago, when deciding who deserves our vote. The parties have changed a lot in recent years, arguably more in the last 5 years then in decades before. This has mostly involved swings to the extremes so the parties who many of us would have voted for happily are no longer the same parties.

You could argue actually the main parties do actually have good leaders based on what those parties currently stand for, I suppose the question is how much of that could or should we buy into. And I suppose what is the alternative. I've said it for a long time but tell me what you want to do and what your vision is and I'll listen, start slagging off the other parties and I just switch off as to me it just exposes the paucity of your own ideas. Vote for us as the other party is allegedly crap is just negative reactionary politics and takes us no where IMHO.

Exactly this ..
I saw a farce book request for the lib dems to stand down in BJ's constituency so that the opposition could have a clear run at him. The point though was lost, if BJ goes, there are others who offer up the same opinions and behaviours, so in the end you don't achieve anything of note.
This is the same for Labour, they have selected a leader who represents what they want to represent .. so the removal of these leaders will not change anything, it has to happen at grass roots and they have to appeal to a wider audience.
Say what you like about Blair, but he was wise enough to realise that the middle ground holds those voters, the edges are just minorities who are in conflict.

 

[Wolf]

I also think we are all also partly culpable as we accept what is said by many biased sources or refer back to what happened years, or in some cases decades ago, when deciding who deserves our vote. The parties have changed a lot in recent years, arguably more in the last 5 years then in decades before. This has mostly involved swings to the extremes so the parties who many of us would have voted for happily are no longer the same parties.

You could argue actually the main parties do actually have good leaders based on what those parties currently stand for, I suppose the question is how much of that could or should we buy into. And I suppose what is the alternative. I've said it for a long time but tell me what you want to do and what your vision is and I'll listen, start slagging off the other parties and I just switch off as to me it just exposes the paucity of your own ideas. Vote for us as the other party is allegedly crap is just negative reactionary politics and takes us no where IMHO.

Totally agree that the public and social media loving drama age we live in is having a huge affect in being responsible for the childish way its all being conducted, a scroll through my feed alone sees people thinking they're political activists and economic experts but all they actual post is childish remarks slagging others off.

I'd argue that they don't have good leaders but that's my own opinion on those people and we all differ in that. But your last point totally agree once the slagging starts I switch off as for me they lose integrity and validity.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

In my experience GE campaigns have been at this low level for many years now.

Unfulfillable promises from all sides, negatives thrown at the other side, ancient history dragged up (Corbyn's Sinn Fein meetings, Johnson's remarks about single mothers; both over 25 years ago but still being brought up).

2016 referendum was equally as bad so we really shouldn't be surprised this time around.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Not just “an mp” but the PM.
If he can’t face a few tough questions from Neil how can he cope against ruthless, equally well educated, better prepared and more knowledgeable world leaders.
Can he be trusted in times of brinksmanship or national and international emergency?

And so we recall David Davis - our own tough negotiator - where he these days?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I worry about our PM - by the end of his AM interview yesterday morning he looked very frazzled. And his short term memory seemed to be at fault throughout - though it seems that he can remember back to 2008 forgetting everything in between. Has he remembered that Parliament passed his Squeens Peach and apologised for his misrecall. He may have tweeted an apology...dunno.

Meanwhile the excuses from his fans and supporters for him not subjecting himself to an AN grilling go on - sadly - though he did say to Marr that he'd be interviewed by any Andrew. Now that would be interesting if it was a different Andrew but one in the news these days...I guess there would be a fair amount of common ground for them to discuss - well - perhaps the only time they'll have 'done' anything 'common'

 

[Hacker Khan]

Totally agree that the public and social media loving drama age we live in is having a huge affect in being responsible for the childish way its all being conducted, a scroll through my feed alone sees people thinking they're political activists and economic experts but all they actual post is childish remarks slagging others off.

I'd argue that they don't have good leaders but that's my own opinion on those people and we all differ in that. But your last point totally agree once the slagging starts I switch off as for me they lose integrity and validity.

I suppose I could have worded it better in that they have 'appropriate' leaders for where the parties are at. In that they are all pretty good at energizing their fanatical voter base, but not very good on the 'unity/governing for all and not the believers' type of thing . Agree that good is possible not the best descriptor.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

We have had daily leaflets from the Lib Dem party through the door. All slagging off Tory and Brexit parties...

They are all at it. Constant leaflet dropping from the LDs. I hope all this marketing is netted off environmentally.

We are getting it also. Nothing so far from Tories or Labour. The hustings last week in town found Jeremy Hunt getting a very hard time from the majority of the audience and the LDs clearly 'sniff blood'. Bit over-stretching themselves I think as TBP are not standing. That said - I am in a strong Remain voting area and the National Health Action Party were in 2nd place in 2017.

BTW - in complaining about the leafleting how else would parties get their message around all homes in a constituency?

 

[HughJars]

I liked the comment:

Interviewer: Right, lets talk about the ecconomy.

Sturgeon: Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland,Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland, Scotland.

Please, the dog food salesman is a joke up here.

 

[HughJars]

In my experience GE campaigns have been at this low level for many years now.

Unfulfillable promises from all sides, negatives thrown at the other side, ancient history dragged up (Corbyn's Sinn Fein meetings, Johnson's remarks about single mothers; both over 25 years ago but still being brought up).

2016 referendum was equally as bad so we really shouldn't be surprised this time around.

Don't agree. It all changed after 2014, when one side saw they could lie without fear of consequences, indeed even the stuff they promised ended up a lie as they followed through with none of it. Politicians used to evade a question, they didn;t lie. Now they just flat out lie, and by they, I mean Tories almost exclusively.

Until the law is tightened, and breaking election law carries real punishments, then this is only going to get worse.

 

[Piece]

We are getting it also. Nothing so far from Tories or Labour. BTW - in complaining about the leafleting how else would parties get their message around all homes in a constituency?

There's leafletting and then there's excess. I've had TWO LD ones today already and it's only part way through the day. Every day for the last two weeks, even a personal letter. Last few elections the LD leaflet campaign was fine (very little Tory no Labour) but this time it is way, way, intense.

 

[spongebob59]

Who cares about the cost .. let's get the votes!!!!!!!!!
Slightly different strategy to the Tories, but a strategy all the same.

Guy on the radio said they would fund this by cancelling all road upgrades and using all revenue from car tax, can'y find a link, but as they say no smoke without fire.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Don't agree. It all changed after 2014, when one side saw they could lie without fear of consequences, indeed even the stuff they promised ended up a lie as they followed through with none of it. Politicians used to evade a question, they didn;t lie. Now they just flat out lie, and by they, I mean Tories almost exclusively.

Until the law is tightened, and breaking election law carries real punishments, then this is only going to get worse.

I can remember being "misled" by Wilson , Thatcher and Blair.

Ridiculous to suggest that this is a new phenomenon and that one side is worse than others.

They have all been at it for years.

 

[drdel]

Don't agree. It all changed after 2014, when one side saw they could lie without fear of consequences, indeed even the stuff they promised ended up a lie as they followed through with none of it. Politicians used to evade a question, they didn;t lie. Now they just flat out lie, and by they, I mean Tories almost exclusively.

Until the law is tightened, and breaking election law carries real punishments, then this is only going to get worse.

Lying is not a recent invention by MPs . Didn't the LDs change tact when in coalition and since Labour hasn't been in power how do we know if they would have lied and didn't ALL parties agree to enact the referendum result and enact Art 50?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

There's leafletting and then there's excess. I've had TWO LD ones today already and it's only part way through the day. Every day for the last two weeks, even a personal letter. Last few elections the LD leaflet campaign was fine (very little Tory no Labour) but this time it is way, way, intense.

There is though a limit to what they can spend. We've also had three. Two on Friday - one today. You've probably had the same (I assume) national one - The Past (picture of Johnson) or The Future (picture of Swinson) - Labour are out of the Race.

And the constituency specific ones hammer the same message - but with a Labour Cannot Win Here message (and they can't). But LibDems just might...though as I said - seems an over-stretch to unseat Jeremy Hunt in a Surrey constituency.

The irony of that is that I was thinking - OK Brexit - OK Tory government - but if not OK Johnson PM - then who?
Raab, Rees-Mogg, Truss, Cleverly, Patel, Javid, Williamson, Gove...? Aaargh!! But I could probably put up with Hunt - maybe Hancock

 

[HughJars]

I can remember being "misled" by Wilson , Thatcher and Blair.

Ridiculous to suggest that this is a new phenomenon and that one side is worse than others.

They have all been at it for years.

Politicians rarely lied, they'd evade, they'd obfuscate, they'd go off on a tangent to avoid answering, they didn't flat out lie like Johnson and Farage. There is no doubt the Tories are currently the worst. there's equally no doubt the SNP don't undulge in this nonsense, and it seems to be to their detriment, they'd be as well joining in.

 

[HughJars]

Lying is not a recent invention by MPs . Didn't the LDs change tact when in coalition and since Labour hasn't been in power how do we know if they would have lied and didn't ALL parties agree to enact the referendum result and enact Art 50?

Breaking a promise made isn't the same as lying up front. Look at the catalogue of lies BJ has already told, he hasn't even had a chance to break promises yet.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Politicians rarely lied, they'd evade, they'd obfuscate, they'd go off on a tangent to avoid answering, they didn't flat out lie like Johnson and Farage. There is no doubt the Tories are currently the worst. there's equally no doubt the SNP don't undulge in this nonsense, and it seems to be to their detriment, they'd be as well joining in.

Sorry but to the vast majority of the country the SNP are an irrelevance so whether or not they are guilty we would not know.

Were Blair's weapons of mass destruction not a lie, Wilson's pound in your pocket?

Lying is often subjective, what one calls a lie others call manipulation of the truth.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Sorry but to the vast majority of the country the SNP are an irrelevance so whether or not they are guilty we would not know.

Were Blair's weapons of mass destruction not a lie, Wilson's pound in your pocket?

Lying is often subjective, what one calls a lie others call manipulation of the truth.

And there we have a statement of the problem facing the unionists in Scotland - when voters in rUK consider the governing party in Scotland to be an irrelevance. For any voter in the rUK who values the Union, then the SNP should be hugely relevant and hugely important - like it or not.

Anyway - has Johnson apologised yet for misspeaking yesterday to AM and the watching electorate about Parliament having blocked the Queen's Speech. Or did he just 'lie' to reinforce the Tory Johnson-Good; Parliament-Bad narrative.

 

[HughJars]

Sorry but to the vast majority of the country the SNP are an irrelevance so whether or not they are guilty we would not know.

Were Blair's weapons of mass destruction not a lie, Wilson's pound in your pocket?

Lying is often subjective, what one calls a lie others call manipulation of the truth.

No the two are different, which is my point entirely. Blair would say his intelligence reports said there were WMD. Did he know different and lie, we'll never know for sure, nor who & at what point they "sexed up" the intelligence?

Wilson, again, technically he wasn't lying, anything made in Britain didn't change price.

These two are exactly what I mean, whereas the Tories are just lying. I mean for god's sake, "there's going to be 50,000 *more* nurses", that's an actual policy that's a lie. As is "40 new hospitals".