AND HERE WE GO - THE 2019 GENERAL ELECTION THREAD

[drdel]

So Labour has now promised another £56bn to address female inequality (I agree it needs progressively correcting) and a further £1bn for the Arts. This would be in addition to their £83bn spending and apart from the £56bn planned CAPEX. The resultant rise in UK debt over 5 years would be massive and unsupportable by any growth. Anyone who thinks this is sensible or sustainable is simply deluded. It would mean outspending the Tories by £5 on each Conservative £1 !!

Energy companies are reportedly already looking to ‘off-shore’ quickly in the event of a Labour win. Corporate swap prices are already pricing in the risk. None of the traditional ‘smart’ money is backing Labour. So you can bet the multi-nationals are watching closely.

Mr Corbyn wants to balance wealth inequality. Those at the ’bottom’ are unable to access credit and because the RoW doesn’t accept the manifesto is possible at a technical level investor confidence will fall making inward investment stall: that will impact us all and impact many future generations very badly. If you bankrupt the nation by not having access to funds there will be no possibility of changing inequality and wealth distribution as those with (your pension fund included) and in-control of wealth will protect their interest by placing it elsewhere.

It’s just plain daft to even think Labour is supportable…

Better keep your fingers crossed.

 

[ColchesterFC]

My point was - the Tory lie - two referendums in 2020 being Labour Party policy. It's 100% not.

And my point was - the Labour lie - that the Tories will sell off the NHS. You only have to watch Labour politicians leading and encouraging the chants of "Not for sale". Despite it having been denied repeatedly and there being no evidence to support it they are hoping that enough people believe it to swing the vote their way.

Politicians from all sides tell lies but for some reason you only want to focus on the Tory ones and use weasel words such as "deceit not a lie" to excuse lies from other parties.

 

[patricks148]

except with a majority he will have no-one to blame as all he is doing is negotiating a deal - and as every ful kno it takes two to tango and David Davies (remember him?) has already told us that the EU are tough negotiators - so Johnson KNOWS that the complex deal he needs to agree may be difficult to agree in his timescales.

And so I ask for the Top Level Plan. Starting with the timescales to the end of 2020. When is the last date the UK will realistically be able to request an extension if we want one. When do we need to get the framework of the agreement established. When do we need to get key elements of the agreement done by. How will parliament and the public know how well things are gong - whether the UK is on track to have a deal agreed by the end of 2020. And so on and so forth.

Ah - yes. Of course all of that is secret. Let's not give away our key negotiating cards. How naive of me for asking. Except we already have revealed our end point and key negotiating card - we'll be fully out by end 2020. The EU knows this and so if Johnson and the rest of his Conservative and Brexit Party actually want a deal - the EU are actually more in control of the negotiations than we might want given our walk-away No Deal position might not be that great.

One day in the next few months Javid is going to have to tell us what No Deal will actually mean if it looks like an agreed deal is not going to be possible in 2020 and Johnson will be dead in a ditch before requesting a transition extension.

i wouldn't bank on it

 

[Deleted member 16999]

So Labour has now promised another £56bn to address female inequality (I agree it needs progressively correcting) and a further £1bn for the Arts. This would be in addition to their £83bn spending and apart from the £56bn planned CAPEX. The resultant rise in UK debt over 5 years would be massive and unsupportable by any growth. Anyone who thinks this is sensible or sustainable is simply deluded. It would mean outspending the Tories by £5 on each Conservative £1 !!

Energy companies are reportedly already looking to ‘off-shore’ quickly in the event of a Labour win. Corporate swap prices are already pricing in the risk. None of the traditional ‘smart’ money is backing Labour. So you can bet the multi-nationals are watching closely.

Mr Corbyn wants to balance wealth inequality. Those at the ’bottom’ are unable to access credit and because the RoW doesn’t accept the manifesto is possible at a technical level investor confidence will fall making inward investment stall: that will impact us all and impact many future generations very badly. If you bankrupt the nation by not having access to funds there will be no possibility of changing inequality and wealth distribution as those with (your pension fund included) and in-control of wealth will protect their interest by placing it elsewhere.

It’s just plain daft to even think Labour is supportable…

Better keep your fingers crossed.

For a Labour win.

It’s easily funded, they’re not repairing the potholes and Nicky Morgans running the account.

 

[patricks148]

And my point was - the Labour lie - that the Tories will sell off the NHS. You only have to watch Labour politicians leading and encouraging the chants of "Not for sale". Despite it having been denied repeatedly and there being no evidence to support it they are hoping that enough people believe it to swing the vote their way.

Politicians from all sides tell lies but for some reason you only want to focus on the Tory ones and use weasel words such as "deceit not a lie" to excuse lies from other parties.

i think the point is that Boris keeps saying, the NHS is not for sale... at bit like we will leave on 31st Oct, no border on the Irish sea.... new money etc etc

 

[Doon frae Troon]

BBC News apologies for 'editing' out applause and laughter from Johnson 'trust' question.
The idiots cannot even get that right, it was only the laughter that they 'edited'.

 

[chrisd]

My point was - the Tory lie - two referendums in 2020 being Labour Party policy. It's 100% not.

Are you sure?

The Tory view is that, depending on the GE result there could be a Brexit referendum and to garner support from the SNP, a referendum for them in 2020

 

[drdel]

I'd argue a little on the salaries. Its a good few years before they reach the average wage, especially in some areas within a hospital, and that's in the trained areas. Many ancillary staff also receive benefits to top up their wages. A public sector job needing DWP support? Thats not right. And the pension isn't anything like what it was. I was lucky to be on the old NHS pension scheme, even though I left for the private sector long ago. The pension scheme has changed twice since then, and not for the better. Many people assume that the NHS pension scheme is brilliant... it was.

As for saying its ok because other sectors are struggling too... isn't that a bit negative. Its ok for the NHS to struggle because the retail sector is too? Surely it should be about both sectors being treated well[/QUOTE]

True of course but world trade/investment conditions impact us all and so my comments merely saying the NHS situation relative to 'others' ain't too bad.. We need the UK to be successful in order for everyone to stand a chance of improvement. Many, many people in other nations would envy the UK's position.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

i think the point is that Boris keeps saying, the NHS is not for sale... at bit like we will leave on 31st Oct, no border on the Irish sea.... new money etc etc

Get Brexit Done..…...……...... when everyone and their pets know that it will take 7 to 10 years to 'Get Brexit Done'.

Don't tell Cameron's 'swivel eyed loons' whatever you do or they will go into meltdown.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

i think the point is that Boris keeps saying, the NHS is not for sale... at bit like we will leave on 31st Oct, no border on the Irish sea.... new money etc etc

Or Labour claims that their manifesto had been costed.

Both parties consistently mislead and bend the truth.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And my point was - the Labour lie - that the Tories will sell off the NHS. You only have to watch Labour politicians leading and encouraging the chants of "Not for sale". Despite it having been denied repeatedly and there being no evidence to support it they are hoping that enough people believe it to swing the vote their way.

Politicians from all sides tell lies but for some reason you only want to focus on the Tory ones and use weasel words such as "deceit not a lie" to excuse lies from other parties.

I called what Tories say about Labour planning two referendum for 2020 a lie - because it IS a lie.

I call Tory pledge to build 40 hospitals a deceit and not a lie - because they might well have plans to build 40 and indeed might end up building 40 hospitals - but at the moment they only have funds identified for 6. If the studies carried out under the seed funding show some to too expensive or the funding just isn't available at that point then they might not get built.

And I said - Labour claims that Tories are planning to privatise the NHS is a lie - unless someone can show me evidence of Tory plans to do so. the

Tory manifesto pledge to recruit 50,000 nurses. That's a deceit - as they cannot guarantee they will because they have no control over the size of part of the 19,000 they aim to re-employ or keep employed.

Johnson promising that UK will leave the EU on 31st October - that was a deceit. He could not guarantee that, no matter how committed he might have been to doing so. And the same applies to us leaving the EU with a deal agreed at the end of 2020. He can't even guarantee that with an overall majority - it depends upon the EU.

And so on. I have no problem calling out a lie for what it is as I am sick to the teeth of politicians treating us like fools, pretending that something will be when it won't; when it was when it wasn't.

I am exhausted by politics and am frankly struggling to maintain any interest whatsoever in the GE, as I take with a pinch of salt much of what I hear from any politician, and do not believe a SINGLE promise or pledge coming out of the mouth of ABdeP Johnson. I can't say I don't believe a word he says because just very occasionally - as in his response on Waspi compensation - he is honest. Just occasionally.

 

[patricks148]

So far in this election in Scotland the only real opposition to the SNP appears to be BBC Scotland.

what you mean the "British Broadcasting Conservatives"

 

[patricks148]

Or Labour claims that their manifesto had been costed.

Both parties consistently mislead and bend the truth.

whos to say they havn't??

 

[Doon frae Troon]

what you mean the "British Broadcasting Conservatives"

That is a bit unfair, BBC Scotland usually give equal billing to Labour.
Especially political editor Sarah, daughter of former leader Labour John Smith.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Or Labour claims that their manifesto had been costed.

Both parties consistently mislead and bend the truth.

And in the context of a normal General Election this would be (almost) acceptable - as much promised would not be implemented and much can be reversed. But this is no ordinary GE. And Johnson will win. And then we will see what happens.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

So Labour has now promised another £56bn to address female inequality (I agree it needs progressively correcting) and a further £1bn for the Arts. This would be in addition to their £83bn spending and apart from the £56bn planned CAPEX. The resultant rise in UK debt over 5 years would be massive and unsupportable by any growth. Anyone who thinks this is sensible or sustainable is simply deluded. It would mean outspending the Tories by £5 on each Conservative £1 !!

Energy companies are reportedly already looking to ‘off-shore’ quickly in the event of a Labour win. Corporate swap prices are already pricing in the risk. None of the traditional ‘smart’ money is backing Labour. So you can bet the multi-nationals are watching closely.

Mr Corbyn wants to balance wealth inequality. Those at the ’bottom’ are unable to access credit and because the RoW doesn’t accept the manifesto is possible at a technical level investor confidence will fall making inward investment stall: that will impact us all and impact many future generations very badly. If you bankrupt the nation by not having access to funds there will be no possibility of changing inequality and wealth distribution as those with (your pension fund included) and in-control of wealth will protect their interest by placing it elsewhere.

It’s just plain daft to even think Labour is supportable…

Better keep your fingers crossed.

Now for the serious reply.

Everything you’ve said makes sense and, and, I tend to agree with you.

My issue is that none of the other parties have managed to sell me their vision.

If the tories get in I genuinely don’t see much changing from the last 9 years and I’ve not once seen or heard boris or his party take any responsibility for the mess they’ve created.
And before we get anyone asking what mess, I’ll just say Police and NHS (and potholes ) If it hasn’t been bad why is boris putting so much emphasis on them.
I’m lucky in that my local Labour MP has been good for the area, veterans and myself, plus he voted against the whip for boris’s deal.

What I can’t help wondering is, would or could I accept Corbyn even if he only managed half of what’s in the Manifesto!

It may sound a bit dramatic, but I’m not sure we’ll see much positivity at all in the next 5 years regardless of who wins.

 

[patricks148]

That is a bit unfair, BBC Scotland usually give equal billing to Labour.
Especially political editor Sarah, daughter of former leader Labour John Smith.

don't know what her Political leanings are but no doubting where Laura Kuenssberg-Johnson are

 

[Deleted member 18588]

whos to say they havn't??

The Labour Party

 

[patricks148]

The Labour Party

so how are they lying then if they havent costed and say they havn't?

 

[chrisd]

What I can’t help wondering is, would or could I accept Corbyn even if he only managed half of what’s in the Manifesto!

It may sound a bit dramatic, but I’m not sure we’ll see much positivity at all in the next 5 years regardless of who wins.

If Corbyn only does half of his manifesto promises he will still bankrupt the country.

Much better to tread a steady path and be in a strong position especially if the EU countries go into recession