SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
I said - unless there is evidence
I was clear - I did not say that there is evidence and made no claims that any existed.
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I said - unless there is evidence
I was clear - I did not say that there is evidence and made no claims that any existed.
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
Were did I say “fine†detail, my reply was in response to Nicky Morgan being sent out to defend the tory manifesto and in particular the 50,000 more Nurses promised by boris.
It’s a big detail and I would expect any journalist to question it to any party.
This really wasn’t a “in the weeds question†or as per my first point, are journalists supposed to believe everything politicians say and not question so to prevent themselves looking good.
ColchesterFC
Journeyman Pro
Your two points are contradictory. The Tories have said no to another referendum. The only way there can be a "Tory Brexitbacle", as you choose to call it, is if the Tories win the election. In which case the SNP won't be supporting a Labour government.
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
So far in this election in Scotland the only real opposition to the SNP appears to be BBC Scotland.
An example of how good the wage is; imagine you go in at 7:30am for an 8:30 start to the theatre list. You are expected to have the recovery room prepped and ready for the first case out of theatre. What happens if the first person into the induction room(pre-op) has a reaction or is too ill or panics or or or... Your first patient appears in recovery at 8:30am. You don't start at 8:30am if the recovery room has to be ready for 8:30am.
The last patient, or a few patients through the day, turns out more complicated than expected, and doubly so if it continues when they come through to recovery. Your 6pm finish could run through till 2am. Do you get paid for the time between 6pm and 2am? Depends on what contract you're on. I do know of one Trust that will pay you time and half for those extra 8 hours. Sounds good? You don't come in till 4pm the next day, and get paid diddly for the hours you don't come in.
For the 8 hours normal working time you get paid as normal. For the subsequent 8 hours you get paid at single rate. But for the 8 hours you don't turn in you get zero... Single rate for out of hours working? Really? Not great is it. But whats even worse, if your line manager says that you need to come in, which usually happens, the 8 hours is taken off your annual leave allowance.
Govt after govt has ruined the NHS, and I don't point the finger at any party. Worryingly, it will eventually mean that the NHS isn't working at all, and that's when it will finally gets sold off. It will be presented as a fait accompli/Hobson's choice. Hopefully attitudes and and priorities will change but if you want an NHS its getting close to the time when you all need to shout long and hard for it.
There should be some knowledge of detail, but only some. Politicians are strategists, think Managing Directors, they don't do operational detail. Expecting a politician who might have been Minister for Education to be on point for detail in say Treasury, or whatever is not going to happen.
We are in danger of getting side tracked on this thread so I will not go longer than this post on the subject. At no point do I say nursing is perfect, or easy, a walk in the park etc. All jobs have their difficulties and I could pluck out other unfair situations to the one you quote in other lines of work, hell they could be on zero hours contracts with no holiday pay, sick pay, pensions, irregular hours etc. Stuff happens. The scenario you describe is not right, not your description of it by the way, just it should not be, but rubbish happens in many jobs.
Incidentally, I did a quick google and it suggest there are around 300k nurses, slightly more but amalgamating part time posts to make a full time one. What jobs are out there that they could move to with equivalant pay, conditions etc for the same skill levels? Obviously some can, I am not trying to slur nurses here, but 300k? I'd say for a good number of people it is still a sound career choice and long may that continue.
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D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
No it’s not, I agree, and would be sympathetic if a Minister is sent to discuss Education and is asked question’s about Defence.
Nicky Morgan however, is doing the media briefings today on the Manifesto, not only was the clip on the 50,000 embarrassing, there is now confusion over when, she stated 50,000 in 10yrs, tory hq has come out out and said no, they mean in 5 years if elected.
Add to the fact she’s not even standing for re-election in the GE, who’ll answer the questions post GE or will it conveniently blamed on “her confusionâ€
Grant85
Head Pro
I'd suggest that is because they have always had generous sick pay. I appreciate there isn't an easy answer.
I've worked in businesses where people got 5 days sick pay per year... and some folk treated this like additional holidays. 'I've still got 2 sick days to take'.
It's unfair to single out staff who are genuinely unfortunate with poor health, but some people will always milk the opportunity if it's there. 6 months sick leave with pay... back for however many months it is to build up their entitlement again.
drdel
Tour Rookie
I agree. There will always be examples of individual's receiving poor treatment among the huge number of NHS staff; it not right but there will be bad management in any big organisation. In today's business environment; with the collapse of the retail high street brought on by online competition and robotic/overseas low manufacturing costs Job Security is a major worry for many of those in the private sector.
Getting and paying a mortgage when the employee is relatively secure in the public sector is a lot more stress free than workers in the private sector; and lets face it the pensions (and pension security) and pay levels in the Police, Fire services, Military, NHS, Teaching etc are far from bad.
3offTheTee
Tour Rookie
Agree and hope you find the following comment unbelievabl:
A friend of ours mother passed away, very sad, she was 96. Said NHS employee had 6 months off with pay. After exactly 6 months she returned to work as she had got over the loss! Pulling the wool.
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
Not quite up to speed on BJs claims on 50,000 extra nurse. As much as we need them. Did he say how many will come from this country, i.e. how many of our kids will be trained up. or are we getting them from a broad which will mean another 50,000 house being bult, etc etc.
chrisd
Major Champion
I'm sure that I either heard Boris say, or one if his ministers, that it would be a combination of home trained and foreign workers
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
Missis T came home from work one saturday late and stressed out. One of her work mates had dropped off sick again who was supposedly taking her off. Irritable bowel she had. To cheer MissisT up, i took her out for an Indian. Guess who was in the same restaurant getting leathered and eating a lovely Balti. Yup Miss sick note. Missis T went out of her way to say ' Get well soon".
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
12,000 from overseas, 19,000 already nurses they hope to retain, 5,000 Students/apprenticeships, leaves 14,000 to be recruited.
Don’t forget the NHS currently has 40,000 vacancies.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
OK - that is true. From the SNP point of view any Brexit bad and so always a Brexitbacle - the only difference is that it could be delivered under a Labour watch through a confirmatory referendum. That doesn't take away from the whole thing being a Tory led debacle.
My point was - the Tory lie - two referendums in 2020 being Labour Party policy. It's 100% not.
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SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Do you know the actual grounds for her being off work. Loss of a parent can cause a complete breakdown...
I don't disagree with the general point in that there are many who swing the lead
I'd argue a little on the salaries. Its a good few years before they reach the average wage, especially in some areas within a hospital, and that's in the trained areas. Many ancillary staff also receive benefits to top up their wages. A public sector job needing DWP support? Thats not right. And the pension isn't anything like what it was. I was lucky to be on the old NHS pension scheme, even though I left for the private sector long ago. The pension scheme has changed twice since then, and not for the better. Many people assume that the NHS pension scheme is brilliant... it was.
As for saying its ok because other sectors are struggling too... isn't that a bit negative. Its ok for the NHS to struggle because the retail sector is too? Surely it should be about both sectors being treated well
3offTheTee
Tour Rookie
I did not see the actual note. However she was always complaining and saying how fed up she was. Just to clarify she was NOT a nurse but on a reception desk and from memory earning around £17,000 p.a. This was around 5 years’ ago.
Think it was depression and she even managed for her employer to send her for counselling.
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