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AND HERE WE GO - THE 2019 GENERAL ELECTION THREAD

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chrisd said:
I'm not defending SR specifically Paul, or criticising your decision to ask for proof, but merely saying that JC is playing fast and loose with Brexit. In saying that he will renegotiate a better deal than Boris has, he is peeing in the wind, as any better deal is one that the EU will insist is going to keep us more closely tied than the current one and therefore imo we'd be better off staying in, but of course that doesnt deliver on the 2016 referendum. Corbyn isn't going to state that he will vote against his own deal publicly but I've seen several interviews where Labour MP,s have been asked the question and their response has been "we'll have to wait and see what deal he gets" . It's all just a fudge to having to state his real Brexit position during the general election.
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I think that the definition of a "better" deal is subjective. What might be "better" for one person could be the very worst outcome for the next person. And in that respect, using the term "better deal" is just spin.

Would JC vote against his deal, and to Remain? I don't think he will. Its been reported numerous times that he has been at odds with many of his shadow cabinet. He's a Leaver. He wouldn't vote for Boris' deal as voting for anything Tory is just something he wouldn't do but I do think he'll vote for his own deal. Maybe he'll hope the Tory Brexiteers will support that deal... who knows.

A fudge, not wanting to clearly state his Brexit position. He's sitting on the fence in the hope Labour will hoover up more of the floating voters.
 
chrisd said:
I'm not defending SR specifically Paul, or criticising your decision to ask for proof, but merely saying that JC is playing fast and loose with Brexit. In saying that he will renegotiate a better deal than Boris has, he is peeing in the wind, as any better deal is one that the EU will insist is going to keep us more closely tied than the current one and therefore imo we'd be better off staying in, but of course that doesnt deliver on the 2016 referendum. Corbyn isn't going to state that he will vote against his own deal publicly but I've seen several interviews where Labour MP,s have been asked the question and their response has been "we'll have to wait and see what deal he gets" . It's all just a fudge to having to state his real Brexit position during the general election.
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Initially, as the Referendum wasn’t fought along Party Lines, I had no real interest in his position, I thought the Leave vote would go through quite easily, but once it became politicised it became a mess, as TM, as was her right, negotiated alone (Party wise) I again ignored Corbyn as I would expect to see any opposition make it awkward and hold a Government to account.
The fuss about remain/Lab/SNP etc was all hot air for me as TM had a majority, it was only once the resignations started I started to fear the “Deal” was not going to be done, then we had the debacle of TM’s 3 votes etc and Labour flip flopping on a way forward until we sort of have a policy (I think).

Lot’s of politicians speak before engaging the brain so again, intent v actual is confused.
 
^^^^ Emily Thornberry stated she would vote to LEAVE today while being interviewed. However once she was challenged she quickly corrected herself. Its amusing to see that not only have they confused the electorate they're beginning to confuse each other :D
 
drdel said:
^^^^ Emily Thornberry stated she would vote to LEAVE today while being interviewed. However once she was challenged she quickly corrected herself. Its amusing to see that not only have they confused the electorate they're beginning to confuse each other :D
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She said that weeks ago as well. Totally clueless🤡
 
At a family bonfire on Saturday night there were two students who were going to vote for the first time this election. I couldn't resist. Yup they were Labour..saying all the right things, You know, looking after the people, health blah blah. So I pointed out a few things about Jezza, that they didn't know, then chucked it the big one. "who was it that introduced fees for uni education?" as just as they we saying Conserv.....NOPE! LABOUR! Now pass that info around your student mates!!!!

Oh and these were not stupid students, as some are, just wet behind the ears. We got into a discussion on no fees in Scotland, LOL. Well they were quick to fire back at me on this. It's not easy to get on courses in Scotland as the uni's up there take in foreign PAYING students to fill up the places. Apparently.
 
drdel said:
^^^^ Emily Thornberry stated she would vote to LEAVE today while being interviewed. However once she was challenged she quickly corrected herself. Its amusing to see that not only have they confused the electorate they're beginning to confuse each other :D
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Labour is currently full (at the top end) of idiots who have not got a clue what they are doing and have forced out the sensible Labour people. Shame really. Con's and Brexit party to rule me thinks.
 
Colonel Bogey said:
Labour is currently full (at the top end) of idiots who have not got a clue what they are doing and have forced out the sensible Labour people. Shame really. Con's and Brexit party to rule me thinks.
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Thank God all the tories and lib dems are so switched on at the top.:rolleyes::poop:
 
Hobbit said:
I think that the definition of a "better" deal is subjective. What might be "better" for one person could be the very worst outcome for the next person. And in that respect, using the term "better deal" is just spin.

Would JC vote against his deal, and to Remain? I don't think he will. Its been reported numerous times that he has been at odds with many of his shadow cabinet. He's a Leaver. He wouldn't vote for Boris' deal as voting for anything Tory is just something he wouldn't do but I do think he'll vote for his own deal. Maybe he'll hope the Tory Brexiteers will support that deal... who knows.

A fudge, not wanting to clearly state his Brexit position. He's sitting on the fence in the hope Labour will hoover up more of the floating voters.
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A better deal only is one that appeals to more people.
The key is to satisfy a broader spectrum than the current deals.
I don’t know how he will do that and I think 6 months is an ambitious time line.
As stated previously he will possibly select an off the shelf deal (Canada, Norway etc ..) then negotiate the cost.
Offer that up and see where it goes.

That is if he gets a majority, if not and he makes a liberal, SNP ( I don’t know the feasibility of this) alliance then he could just remain and concentrate on domestic policies.

So looking at it, where is there synergy in the policies offered by labour and libs/snp (or both) ? Those will go through first and we will see if the Libs and SNP will hold firm unlike Clegg.
 
Colonel Bogey said:
At a family bonfire on Saturday night there were two students who were going to vote for the first time this election. I couldn't resist. Yup they were Labour..saying all the right things, You know, looking after the people, health blah blah. So I pointed out a few things about Jezza, that they didn't know, then chucked it the big one. "who was it that introduced fees for uni education?" as just as they we saying Conserv.....NOPE! LABOUR! Now pass that info around your student mates!!!!

Oh and these were not stupid students, as some are, just wet behind the ears. We got into a discussion on no fees in Scotland, LOL. Well they were quick to fire back at me on this. It's not easy to get on courses in Scotland as the uni's up there take in foreign PAYING students to fill up the places. Apparently.
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The fees are interesting as the the universities have benefited massively and some Bursars as well.
But overall they the students now have access to some of the most sophisticated equipment and software - meaning that when they come out they do not have to be trained but just checked and this offers industry a cost save. Of cause I am only speaking from an Engineering stand point and I will state arrogantly now that everything that is non medical or socially beneficial is a hobby ;)...
So although contentious, it has had a positive impact, I am not a fan of the cost escalation and I think there should be wage caps in certain parts of the industry.
I am also aware that there are methods of not paying back the loans and these need to be re-visited as they are generally driving cost for others.

But I'll also counter your point in the Tories have not scrapped it ... so they must agree with it ..so in general it must have been a good idea ?
 
spongebob59 said:
Brexit party will not field candidate in seats win by torys in 2017.
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Farage rowing back on his original bluff and bluster about fielding candidates everywhere if Boris did not drop his plan is hardly surprising as that's what types like him do, spout all sorts of stuff they either have no intention or no ability to carry through. And it makes sense for The Brexit party and Tories to merge at the polls as it is increasingly difficult to tell them apart.
 
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Hacker Khan said:
Farage rowing back on his original bluff and bluster about fielding candidates everywhere if Boris did not drop his plan is hardly surprising as that's what types like him do, spout all sorts of stuff they either have no intention or no ability to carry through. And it makes sense for The Brexit party and Tories to merge as the polls as it is increasingly difficult to tell them apart.
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so potentially he will contest marginal seats that the tories lost in 2017?
 
...splitting the Leave vote making it even less likely that the Tories will win them this time - or maybe if TBP takes more Labour votes than Tory votes then the Tories might win - blimey?...and TBP won't contest seats that the Tories won by a small margin where there is strong Brexit Party support (e.g. Pendle) - a support who have come to view Johnson's Deal as a BRINO - and are now furious to have that chance removed.

And how does it mean that the Tories will win more seats than they have at the moment. Yes - TBP might well win quite a few Labour seats up north where the Tories are toxic and no-noes - but that surely means the Tories will have to rely upon TBP support for them to be able to get anything through parliament? Besides - I still don't get TBP in Westminster with a Westminster Leader, and hence major mouthpiece, not Farage.

We could end up with a minority Tory Government in the pocket of TBP - and maybe now Farage will stand as he will want to be seen in Westminster be holding the Tories to Johnson's promise that a Johnson government will not seek an extension to the transition period if a deal has not been agreed.
 
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So if this deal gets boris back in power and then we leave the EU almost immediately, will the Brexit MP’s then stand down and call by-elections as they will have no reason to be.
Or will Farage have to change his focus and aim again to keep himself in the media.
Another Party maybe?:unsure:
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
...slitting the Leave vote making it even less likely that the Tories will win them this time - or maybe if TBP takes more Labour votes than Tory votes then the Tories might win - blimey?...and TBP won't contest seats that the Tories won by a small margin where there is strong Brexit Party support (e.g. Pendle) - a support who have come to view Johnson's Deal as a BRINO - and are now furious to have that chance removed.

And how does it mean that the Tories will win more seats than they have at the moment. Yes - TBP might well win quite a few Labour seats up north where the Tories are toxic and no-noes - but that surely means the Tories will have to rely upon TBP support for them to be able to get anything through parliament? Besides - I still don't get TBP in Westminster with a Westminster Leader, and hence major mouthpiece, not Farage.

We could end up with a minority Tory Government in the pocket of TBP - and maybe now Farage will stand as he will want to be seen in Westminster be holding the Tories to Johnson's promise that a Johnson government will not seek an extension to the transition period if a deal has not been agreed.
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I think the Brexit Party will dilute the Tory vote quite a bit, assuming there's still the feelings there was around the time of the Euro elections. If there are still similar feelings around, I wonder how Labour will get on.

As for your comment on the Brexit Party in Westminster with a Westminster leader not being Farage. I feel exactly the same way about the SNP. I find it a little odd when Sturgeon mouths off about Westminster when her remit is MSP/First Minister in Scotland.
 
Hobbit said:
I think the Brexit Party will dilute the Tory vote quite a bit, assuming there's still the feelings there was around the time of the Euro elections. If there are still similar feelings around, I wonder how Labour will get on.
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I was thinking there is a danger here for Boris if there are marginal seats .. we do know the electorate does like to make a point.
But as stated it could be snaffling votes off Labour and Conservative .. it would be interesting to see the marginal seats from the previous election and who 2nd was and how close 3rd was because that could be game changer.
 
harpo_72 said:
I was thinking there is a danger here for Boris if there are marginal seats .. we do know the electorate does like to make a point.
But as stated it could be snaffling votes off Labour and Conservative .. it would be interesting to see the marginal seats from the previous election and who 2nd was and how close 3rd was because that could be game changer.
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There's no question this has handed Boris a massive advantage. No idea why Farage did it, conspiracy theories range from he is doing this under instructions from the Kremlin, he is doing this to get an honour to the more mundane that he just realised that if the Brexit Party took votes from the Tories then Brexit may not happen. I suppose the remain parties could get their act together and start not fielding candidates in a serious way to counter this, but by that stage you kind of think they may as well just have another Brexit referendum instead of one by proxy. Onwards and upwards.....
 
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