An idiots guide to lasers, range finders and GPS

[richardchapman]

Right as a relative new comer i'm totally baffled by the rulings on range finders, lasers etc. Im currently using an app on my phone with GPS which as far as i can tell would be illegal in competition. Is there a guide to what would be ok to use as a lot of information seems to be conflicting possibly due to recent rule changes?
Having joined my first club does the same ruling apply in a round for handicap purposes outside of an official competition.

Thanks

 

[G1BB0]

I have a feeling, if playing for handicap purposes then it is played under the same conditions as a medal/competition. Therfore unless a local rule is in place a DMD (distance measuring device so GPS or laser) would be illegal and if local rules allow then a dmd would be fine but GPS on phones still illegal.

 

[Colin L]

Richard, you should find this explanation from the R&A website helpful. Have a look through it and come back with any questions you might still have.
http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-in-Focus/Archive/2011/March/DMDs.aspx

 

[duncan mackie]

...... a lot of information seems to be conflicting possibly due to recent rule changes?

there are no recent rule changes

it gets confusing because -

1. people keep looking at the various attempts to clarify rather than staying focused on the rules
2. people don't like the rule, or think it's silly as worded
3. people don't understand why there can't just be a definitive list of 'approved devices' to help (especially those who want to use Smart Phones with an App...)

I will now try and confuse further in line with no 1 above

1. In order to use any DMD the Local Rules have to permit their use. If such a rule exists at the course, or has been introduced for a specific competition, then move on to part 2 ...
2. You can only use a DMD that measures distance alone. If you have a DMD that has the capability to measure, and display, barometric pressure or temperature (as an example) then it is illegal to use even if that feature is switched off - it doesn't matter if you don't use the feature, using the device is a breach of 14-3.
3. The first confusion then happens when people compare this with someone having a thermometer on their golf trolley. This is not a breach of any rule unless you use it to measure temperature. A trolley is not a DMD and there are seperate rules that apply to DMDs.
4. A Smartphone being used as a DMD with a GPS app is considered a DMD - as you will appreciate from the above this is the important bit - so you can only use a Smartphone as a DMD that does not have any feature that would or could measure anything that would render it illegal; this would include thermometer, barometer, inclinometer, compass....this is what basically rules out using Smartphones as DMDs (but there will inevitably be one at some point )
5. Next big confusion - a Smartphone that isn't being used as a DMD isn't subject to the DMD rules, so using the 'phone as a 'phone during the round, even if it has a thermometer, isn't a breach. Using the thermometer would be.

I really hope this helps - it normally triggers posts such as why is a compass......why is it illegal to use a thermometer, it's ridiculous that a barometer feature etc etc

 

[Colin L]

View attachment 5609

 

[stevie_r]

View attachment 5609

indeed

 

[rulefan]

Incidentally, note that a tape measure is a DMD.
If the local rule is not in force, it is a breach to use one to measure for a 'nearest the pin' competition.

 

[Colin L]

In what way does measuring nearest the pin with a tape measure breach 14-3? Does the action assist the player

in making a stroke or in his play;
or by gauging or measuring distance that might affect his play;
or by assisting him in gripping his club?

Obviously not so let's put that worm back in the can.

 

[kev_off_the_tee]

I'm going to dig our fixture list out and heading straight for the rules. What's the point in having a £300 GPS if I can't use it as I will only be playing comps on weekends

 

[rulefan]

In what way does measuring nearest the pin with a tape measure breach 14-3? Does the action assist the player

or by gauging or measuring distance that might affect his play;

Obviously not so let's put that worm back in the can.

Colin

Remember with ntp there is still the putt to make and knowing the exact distance might affect his play

However, you have misquoted the rule.

For the purpose of gauging or measuring distance OR conditions that might affect his play; or

The R&A confirmed this some years ago and actually proposed the wording of a local rule that would permit the use of a tape measure for ntp comps specifically but forbidding DMDs in general.

 

[Colin L]

Your excellent tee shot lands near enough the hole to be in contention. You mark the position, you putt out and you then measure the distance from the marker to the hole. Where's the 14-3 breach?

And no, I didn't misquote the rule: I simply didn't mention "conditions that might affect his play" as that isn't relevant to the question.

 

[Colin L]

I'm going to dig our fixture list out and heading straight for the rules. What's the point in having a £300 GPS if I can't use it as I will only be playing comps on weekends

First thing to do is simply to check if there is a local rule in place allowing the use of DMDs. If there is, see Duncan's note 2 in post #4 and check that your particular DMD meets the rules.

 

[North Mimms]

Best to assume that as long as local rule permits use of DMDs...

All purpose made DMDs are legal*
All smartphone apps are illegal

*I think there is some laser thing that has a slope reading option which is a no-no.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Cos theree isn't a 'grumpy' for biting my tongue

 

[rulefan]

Your excellent tee shot lands near enough the hole to be in contention. You mark the position, you putt out and you then measure the distance from the marker to the hole. Where's the 14-3 breach?

And no, I didn't misquote the rule: I simply didn't mention "conditions that might affect his play" as that isn't relevant to the question.

I was simply passing on the R&A's ruling.

However, most people remove the marker before putting so, to ensure accuracy, would measure first.

 

[Jay Gee]

Surely a piece of string would suffice? No need for a tape measure.

 

[Colin L]

But how long is a piece of string?

 

[rulefan]

I was simply passing on the R&A's ruling.

However, most people remove the marker before putting so, to ensure accuracy, would measure first.

The correspondence was rather long winded and the USGA was involved but the essence is that this LR would be approriate for mesuring both before or after the stroke.

"The use of a distance measuring device is permitted in measuring the distance from the hole to a ball or marker on the putting green on any par 3 hole on the course included in a "nearest to the hole" competition."

 

[pbrown7582]

I'm going to dig our fixture list out and heading straight for the rules. What's the point in having a £300 GPS if I can't use it as I will only be playing comps on weekends

Definately worth checking mate, most clubs do allow but some don't.

OP your app is not allowable in handicap card rounds as they are treated like comps.

 

[rulefan]

Right as a relative new comer i'm totally baffled by the rulings on range finders, lasers etc. Im currently using an app on my phone with GPS which as far as i can tell would be illegal in competition. Is there a guide to what would be ok to use as a lot of information seems to be conflicting possibly due to recent rule changes?
Having joined my first club does the same ruling apply in a round for handicap purposes outside of an official competition.

Thanks

If you are in the CONGU handicapping area, although the use may be illegal in competition, there is an exception for handicap purposes. Although you would be subject to DQ for the comp your score should still be posted for handicap purposes.

Appendix P Table 2 14-3