Alloting an Initial Handicap

[Swango1980]

I have recently become handicap secretary at my club. I had always heard that, when members submitted their cards for an initial handicap, they must hole out on every hole. I have recently received a couple of cards from a member, who "blobbed" on a few holes during each round, so I automatically assumed that I cannot accept them. However, on checking the CONGU Manual, I couldn't find this condition written down anywhere. Also, when I entered his scores onto CluV1, zeros for blobs similar to a Stableford score, it looks like the system was happy and replaced blobs with double pars. So, is it correct that I can actually accept these cards for an initial handicap, and if not where can I find this in writing? Thanks

 

[rosecott]

We ask members who are marking initial handicap cards to be aware that, when double par is reached on any hole, then that is the time to pull the plug on that hole. Initial handicap cards are mostly done in conjunction with a club competition so it would not be helpful for pace of play to have the player racking up 7. 8. 9 or more over par - and he will probably be grateful not to have to continue the hole. This is fine if the marker has been briefed but you have to be careful that a blob is not registered which is less than double par.

 

[rulefan]

So, is it correct that I can actually accept these cards for an initial handicap, and if not where can I find this in writing? Thanks

Yes, those cards and scores are ok. You can't find anything in the manual because there is no such restriction.

 

[Swango1980]

Thanks for the responses. It's a good job I tend to check these things out, trusting golfers urban myths is dangerous

 

[jim8flog]

. Also, when I entered his scores onto CluV1, zeros for blobs similar to a Stableford score, it looks like the system was happy and replaced blobs with double pars.

Worth remembering, if you are new to it, that all scores are 'based' upon stableford for handicap purposes. Once a person has a handicap it is where the 'any score worse than net double bogey gets converted to net double bogey' comes in.

 

[Swango1980]

Cheers. Yes, I'm pretty on the ball with most handicap / rule related issues (albeit the new rules keep me on my toes from time to time). The main issue is, as rosecott alluded to, is that a player may blob a hole when submitting their first card for handicap simply because they are having a bad hole. However, if they finished the hole, they may have scored a 9 on a par 5, 7 on a par 4, 6 on a par 3 and still therefore beat the double par score that they will be given for blobbing it. This is why I thought the rule of having to score on every hole was in place, as I've been told in the past (which I now see is not the case), so that it would eliminate this issue. This would especially make sense in today's game, where handicaps of up to 54 are permitted and so we are rounding bad scores down to a higher value (double par rather than double bogey as before). If mixed in with a competition, it is a good idea mentioned by rosecott to allow them to blob the hole when double par has been reached, it can be properly managed. However, it is more difficult when members are submitting cards from social rounds, and may simply pick up as the scores I mentioned above seem high, yet still below double par.

 

[rulefan]

However, it is more difficult when members are submitting cards from social rounds, and may simply pick up as the scores I mentioned above seem high, yet still below double par.

As new members are not that common, why not tell them as they join that they should play out and score until they reach double par. I assume that new players are given some introduction including how to get an initial handicap.

 

[Swango1980]

We've got all instructions as to how to obtain a handicap, fill in the card, etc on the noticeboard. New members also get an e-mail with necessary information and contact details if required. However, we do get quite an influx of new members, and due to the types of memberships available, a lot of new members are also pretty much new to golf. Most members join simply to play social golf, and never actually seek to obtain a handicap. From my experience so far, submitted cards do not always fully comply with the instructions set out, probably simply down to lack of experience on the players part. We will now add information that holes can be blobbed if the score is double par or worse, although whether new members will take this on board is another matter entirely. And, unfortunately, I'd have no way of checking whether they have followed this or not, whereas other mistakes can usually be identified (i.e. not marking tee, Player name not clear, not signed, etc). To be honest, it is probably not a major headache at all, I'm more worried about how the job as handicap secretary will change once the new handicap system is in place. I imagine it could be an absolute admin nightmare, and much more open to abuse.

 

[rulefan]

To be honest, it is probably not a major headache at all, I'm more worried about how the job as handicap secretary will change once the new handicap system is in place. I imagine it could be an absolute admin nightmare, and much more open to abuse.

I don't think you need be worried. CONGU will still only be accepting single strokeplay comp and supp cards. All the calculations are simpler and will be done by the system so you won't have to explain why the CSS went up/down or buffer zone transition. The tricky bit might be slope but your county should be doing a decent presentation that you can use for members. It's only the principle that needs to be got across and most will welcome the extra strokes they get on more difficult rated courses and relative to their scratch friends.

 

[Swango1980]

The issue I'm worried about is that, players will be encouraged to submit more of their social rounds. Maybe this won't happen initially, but if it does it will take me an age to enter all these scores (could potentially have dozens of rounds a day to process if most players decide to post every round). I know members can enter scores into the computer themselves, but even if they do, their scorecards still need to be checked because experienced players can still enter their scores incorrectly, or not sign cards in actual comps so I've little confidence all social rounds would be entered correctly. Also, quite often our computer goes down, and so members wouldn't be able to enter them directly anyway. They'f probably need to be checked every day, because at midnight each night is when the system processes scores, works out a course adjustment factor for that day based on difficulty and issues the new handicaps. The "open to abuse issue" is that, given the new system only looks at the last 20 rounds, and the average of the 8 best scores within, somebody who plays a lot of golf could have rapid handicap changes. For example, in the summer I could easily play at least 5 times a week (lucky for some), so within a month that's my 20 rounds. My current handicap is 7.7. But, if I have a shocking month, mess about a bit during the majority of rounds which are social, or purposely play poor rounds to achieve a handicap increase for a big comp coming up (I wouldn't do that, but some might?), then as I understand it I could go up to anything, even a handicap over 30 if I play really really badly. I'm not sure what the system has in place to stop this, or will it be down to the poor old handicap secretary to spot this and adjust the handicaps again. And if they do this, I'd have no idea what happens to the record of the players last 20 rounds, as their handicap would not be compatible with this anymore. And, another issue is that the golfer is still responsible for their own handicap, and need to reduce it if the system has not updated. Good luck with this, a lot of golfers struggle to add up 18 holes, so asking them to remember their last 20 rounds, picking the best 8 and working out an average will be a delight to watch . My knowledge on this is based on what I read a while back, and a seminar at Woodhall Spa by England Golf. So, some things may have changed since then, but it seemed like they were pretty sure how most of the mechanics would work.

 

[rulefan]

1) It is unlikely that CONGU will include social scores in the near future unless they are pre-declared as supplementary scores.
2) Players won't need to use your computer. The web via a PC or app will be accessible from anywhere.
3) The daily score adjustment will occur infrequently and will be virtually insignificant in the averaging system.
4) The advantage of the averaging system is that it reacts to downward movements more slowly and upward slightly more quickly. Scores will have to be dramatically up or down to affect the average. A sequence of very poor scores won't appear in the best 8 until the current best have fallen out. Significant changes will be reported by the system I believe.
5) All scores are remembered for ever.
6) Why would the system not update if the player has returned his score?

 

[Swango1980]

1 - Hopefully, although at the meeting England golf were suggesting that they would encourage golfers to submit every round (not matchplay), much more than the odd member now who submits a supplementary because they can't get their 3 comps in a year.
2 - There are a lot of golfers at my club who can't even use the internet to book into comps via howdidido, so I'd imagine there will be many computer illiterate golfers who have never even hear of an app
3 - I'm more worried about players entering scores completely wrong. We've had members enter their comp scores in, and noticed they've won with about 80 points because they entered their stableford scores, not hole scores. I'd wonder how this would impact the daily adjustment if a handful of members did this.
4 - Each time I post a bad score, it technically wipes out the round I had 21 rounds ago. As I keep doing this, it will start wiping out better rounds, thus leaving fewer good rounds in your last 20 to work out the average. I'm aware that there will probably be some sort of memory system that it will not necessarily wipe out a round from 21 rounds ago if it was a great score, but not sure on mechanics of this. However, it still seems that a player could have a huge increase to their handicap in the space of 1-3 months if they play really badly. And, if I went from 7.7 in May to even something like 14 in August, I know my fellow competitiors would be pretty annoyed, especially if I go out and shoot 45+ points
5 - But what does it do to them after they are more than 20 rounds ago? A score I posted 50 rounds ago would be irrelevant? Whereas, at least with the current system those very old scores contributed to your handicap, and each round thereafter your handicap is adjusted accordingly. 5-6 years ago I shot a couple of great rounds, and with the associated adjustments and ESR I went from about 12 to 8, and I've been around 6-8 ever since. So, at least I feel that those ancient rounds still contributed to where I am now, whereas in the new system they'd seem a bit irrelevant after time passes
6 - What if the player hasn't returned his score? What if the computer was unavailable or down, he couldn't use it or couldn't enter scores online? He / she would return their scorecard and await the handicap secretary to sort it for them. If they are playing a comp the next day, they must still make their own adjustment until we sort it out for them

As you can see, I do have my concerns so playing devil's advocate in a way. I still hope that a lot of these concerns will never come to pass. However, I personally feel like the current system is pretty solid, been used successfully for years and has been refined over time to improve it (e.g. ESRs). My worry is, for the simple outcome of allowing players to use their handicap anywhere globally (how many people does that effect?) we could start using a system that essentially brings many more problems to the everyday golfers / committees that we do not currently face. I appreciate that many golfers do not understand the SSS/CSS set-up and so incorrectly think if they play at an easy course, they are of less ability to a similar handicap player at a harder course, and so the new system will deal with that. Although, if that is truly a concern for them, their handicap secretary could explain to them why courses have an SSS, and therefore they can compete against players from harder courses.

 

[duncan mackie]

're no 4 I believe the current proposal is to flag any increase over 2 strokes within a calendar year and require external approval (ie outside the automated system).