Against the spirit of the game?

[garyinderry]

They say familiarity breeds contempt. Moon had been given and given so many of those length putts that she just assumed it was given. She most likely will never make that mistake again in her life.


These ''was it given was it not'' scenarios, have happened too much that players should by now have learnt from past mistakes.

I believe if you are going to give a putt it should be given without too much hesitation, stated loudly and clearly. These are usually tap in so its only good manners to do so. It shouldn't require much thought at all.

Equally I believe if you are adamant you want to see a player hole out. This should also be stated loudly and without hesitation.


Moon was too quick to assume the putt was 'good' and Shepard had her eyes closed which meant she was unable to give a somewhat rapid concession or request to hole out. Neither of these actions were pretty smart.

 

[Jates12]

I understand exactly where you're coming from mate but it still doesn't sit right, she was obviously "coached" into claiming it wasn't conceded.
Btw, have you ever not conceded a 6" putt?

I have, multiple times. In pressure situations everything is to be holed in my opinion, I would expect my opponent to make me do it and I would expect them to do the same, If they give me a short putt on 18 and they have one of a similar length he/she is putting im afraid.

 

[Beezerk]

I have, multiple times. In pressure situations everything is to be holed in my opinion, I would expect my opponent to make me do it and I would expect them to do the same, If they give me a short putt on 18 and they have one of a similar length he/she is putting im afraid.

Wow.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

I don't understand why people are going on about missing short putts, that isn't the question. And for what it is worth, the girls in question are likely to be serious + handicappers so the chances of Moon missing from a couple of inches are extremely unlikely. The debate is about Shepherd's reaction to her picking up the ball not about mid/high handicappers missing short putts.

Either Shepherd (or more likely her coach) adopted a 'win at all costs' attitude that to me did not come across as very sporting.

 

[Jates12]

Wow.

I dont see why others, and i assume you, expect to be given putts if you give one first? as someone has stated isnt the aim of the game to get the ball in the hole, not near?

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

as someone has stated isnt the aim of the game to get the ball in the hole, not near?

Yes it is but have you never considered a) sportsmanship b) courtesy to your opponent and c) speed of play?

 

[FairwayDodger]

I don't understand why people are going on about missing short putts, that isn't the question. And for what it is worth, the girls in question are likely to be serious + handicappers so the chances of Moon missing from a couple of inches are extremely unlikely. The debate is about Shepherd's reaction to her picking up the ball not about mid/high handicappers missing short putts.

Either Shepherd (or more likely her coach) adopted a 'win at all costs' attitude that to me did not come across as very sporting.

True enough, at that level you're not messing around watching people tap in short putts. A gimme every time.

 

[Crazyface]

I dont see why others, and i assume you, expect to be given putts if you give one first? as someone has stated isnt the aim of the game to get the ball in the hole, not near?

This with knobs on!!!! What on earth are you all discussing?????? There are rules that govern the game. There are rules that govern match play. Have a read of them. You play to the rules when playing in competition. Otherwise what's the point of them?

 

[ParParTripleBogey]

Bizarre watching so many people get upset about what is and isnt a concession. You hole out until you are clearly told otherwise. I would never, ever question someone's decision to make me putt out even a short putt - I'd question anyone's competitive spirit if they conceded everything and expected the same back in return. I make a point of being unpredictable in my concessions and I like people that arent afraid to ask me to hole out. I play golf to be respectful and competitive - I find the expectation of concession as bizarre as expecting someone to hole out everything. That's what makes match play distinctly different to stroke play.

On this particular incident, I think both players have something to learn but nothing they should be ashamed of. They're teenagers, and they've been thrust into an awkward situation that they will learn from but was unfortunately caught live on TV. We're all had harsh lessons growing up but we have benefit of learning those lessons away from the public eye. Moon should have checked for concession, end of story. From what I could tell, Shepherd got bad advice from a coach or caddie and the TV coverage reflected badly on her. As the experienced/adult member of team, you would hope they would be very careful about how that situation developed but instead it seems they've sown a seed and the youngster has commented prematurely in a way that meant the official had to act. I had hoped a coach/caddie would have come forward and apologised to take the heat of Shepherd by now as Im not convinced she alone should be subjected to the coverage/commentary we've seen since.

Ultimately, they're teenagers and for all this talk of "spirit of the game", dishing out abuse to a 16 year old girl for this seems hugely hypocritical.

 

[JohnnyDee]

Late to the party on this one.

And whereas there was a technical breach of the rule here, I believe that the breach was highlighted (possibly by the caddy) and because of what was said by Shepherd - either intentionally or unintentionally (I'm leaning towards intentionally upon realisation of her ability to nab the win) the whole thing unfolded the way it did and the rules official had no option but to adjudicate by the rule book.

However in the context of the OP's thread title I feel it was all very unsavoury, unnecessary and definitely not within the 'Spirit of the Game'.

This however, and with considerably more at stake riding on a much longer putt, very much is. (grainy video but scroll on to 1.45 to get the idea)

[video=youtube;I1ajibVkQzE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1ajibVkQzE[/video]

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Isn't the Westwood vs Kuchar match in the 2012 Ryder Cup a perfect example of how it should be done

Westwood leaves his putt short about 6 inches/1 foot turns around the Kuchar to see if he wanted him to putt out who - he did and all sorted

The Moon girl regardless of how short it is or how they expect to hole the out shouldn't have presumed anything and moved the ball away without it either being holed or being conceded- she is in the wrong , not the other girl or this coach which seems to have entered the story

 

[Jates12]

Yes it is but have you never considered a) sportsmanship b) courtesy to your opponent and c) speed of play?

How is giving someone a putt good sportsmanship? Being a good sport is being humble in defeat and victory in my opinion, not being a push over and giving your Opponent gifts, if you want to see them make it, make them make it, regardless of if they have given you a 3 footer the hole before.It sounds like some of the people on here are afraid of winning or being called a name for making someone make a putt.

You mention that it slows the game up, the difference is probably 10 seconds between knocking it in and picking it up. If you cant spare 10 seconds you're playing too slowly anyways.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

Bizarre watching so many people get upset about what is and isnt a concession. You hole out until you are clearly told otherwise. I would never, ever question someone's decision to make me putt out even a short putt - I'd question anyone's competitive spirit if they conceded everything and expected the same back in return. I make a point of being unpredictable in my concessions and I like people that arent afraid to ask me to hole out. I play golf to be respectful and competitive - I find the expectation of concession as bizarre as expecting someone to hole out everything. That's what makes match play distinctly different to stroke play.

On this particular incident, I think both players have something to learn but nothing they should be ashamed of. They're teenagers, and they've been thrust into an awkward situation that they will learn from but was unfortunately caught live on TV. We're all had harsh lessons growing up but we have benefit of learning those lessons away from the public eye. Moon should have checked for concession, end of story. From what I could tell, Shepherd got bad advice from a coach or caddie and the TV coverage reflected badly on her. As the experienced/adult member of team, you would hope they would be very careful about how that situation developed but instead it seems they've sown a seed and the youngster has commented prematurely in a way that meant the official had to act. I had hoped a coach/caddie would have come forward and apologised to take the heat of Shepherd by now as Im not convinced she alone should be subjected to the coverage/commentary we've seen since.

Ultimately, they're teenagers and for all this talk of "spirit of the game", dishing out abuse to a 16 year old girl for this seems hugely hypocritical.

Nobody is questioning whether or not Moon was right or wrong to pick up her ball (everyone agrees she was wrong), the debate is about the rather unsavoury way Shepherd seize the opportunity to claim the win.

How is giving someone a putt good sportsmanship? Being a good sport is being humble in defeat and victory in my opinion, not being a push over and giving your Opponent gifts, if you want to see them make it, make them make it, regardless of if they have given you a 3 footer the hole before.It sounds like some of the people on here are afraid of winning or being called a name for making someone make a putt.

You mention that it slows the game up, the difference is probably 10 seconds between knocking it in and picking it up. If you cant spare 10 seconds you're playing too slowly anyways.

You clearly have a different perception of sportsmanship to me and quite a few others on here. Did you watch Johnnydee's video? The golfing world applauded Nicklaus for that gesture.

 

[Jates12]

You clearly have a different perception of sportsmanship to me and quite a few others on here. Did you watch Johnnydee's video? The golfing world applauded Nicklaus for that gesture.

Im at work so I cant see it but im aware of it, 1969 Ryder Cup? Thats a great gesture, but its not the norm is it. Unfortunately that goes against my competitive nature, that may just be the way that I am but if I can influence an outcome, in this instance making someone knock in a nervy 12" putt then im going to do it. If he misses its on him, If he makes it we go down the next and I have another chance to win, if i dont then its on me. All of these things are controllable, jack didnt want tony jacklin to miss and was happy with a half. But, if i recall, it was the last match and the USA would of retained it anyway if Jacklin had made or Missed, do you think that if Europe could of won if he holed the putt or lost if he missed he would of conceded? I think not. Its easy to make gestures like that with nothing at stake, but we are talking about win or go home here.

 

[slowhand]

The golfing world applauded Nicklaus for that gesture.

Yes, but the gesture did not affect the overall outcome, as the USA retained the cup, being the holders. So in reality, it didn't cost Nicklaus or the USA anything.

 

[Deleted member 23270]

Yes, but the gesture did not affect the overall outcome, as the USA retained the cup, being the holders. So in reality, it didn't cost Nicklaus or the USA anything.

Of course it did, it was the difference between a win and a tie. The GB&I team are able to say they tied rather than lost which is significantly different.

 

[patricks148]

Nobody is questioning whether or not Moon was right or wrong to pick up her ball (everyone agrees she was wrong), the debate is about the rather unsavoury way Shepherd seize the opportunity to claim the win.



You clearly have a different perception of sportsmanship to me and quite a few others on here. Did you watch Johnnydee's video? The golfing world applauded Nicklaus for that gesture.

well put.

it would appear some have no concept of match play on here

 

[ParParTripleBogey]

Nobody is questioning whether or not Moon was right or wrong to pick up her ball (everyone agrees she was wrong), the debate is about the rather unsavoury way Shepherd seize the opportunity to claim the win.

Aye, fair enough. Im just pointing out that there was some influence from a caddie/coach and it's unfair to be laying into a 16 year old for lacking the experience/maturity to deal with such a situation.

 

[bobmac]

This just goes to show how we are all different.
If we were all the same we'd all be watching X- factor, bake off, football and all the rest of the rubbish

 

[Deleted member 23270]

Aye, fair enough. Im just pointing out that there was some influence from a caddie/coach and it's unfair to be laying into a 16 year old for lacking the experience/maturity to deal with such a situation.

Maybe it would have been fairer to say "Team Shepherd" as she certainly appears to have been influenced by her caddy/coach/parents or whatever.