Active/Inactive Handicap

[DCB]

"The answer is, to follow the rest of the world of amateur golf and have handicaps based on every 18 hole game played, social or competition. "

Most of the rest of the world drive on the wrong side of the raod. Would we have to do that too ?

 

[KeefG]

lol

Its an interesting situation you have to admit, I know my brother has problems where he plays of bandits who protect their handicap then turn up on the big comp days and blow everyone away with 40+ points.

It doesnt matter what system is in place, people will always find a way round it.

What is to stop these very same bandits playing absolutely terribly on purpose and handing in the required number of cards with poor point scores?

 

[Smiffy]

"The answer is, to follow the rest of the world of amateur golf and have handicaps based on every 18 hole game played, social or competition. "

That's assuming Mr "Social" golfer hands his cards in.
How many tip up for a game with their mates and play for a few quid, shoot the lights out and take the money, stuff their clubs in the boot of the car and head off home, safe in the knowledge that they won't be cut?
I know it goes against the grain but I am sure that if they actually cut the handicaps of people that didn't hand cards in, this would stop the bandits.
OK the country might eventually end up full of 5 handicap golfers but this would stop the 45 pointers in comps and social days out.

 

[balaclava]

I’m amazed at the cynicism displayed amongst golfers here; I wonder whether it is a part of our national character? I have played golf in other countries which have handicap systems based upon every 18 holes played. Handicaps become dynamic going up and down by the week to truly reflect your current state of play. In my experience golfers go out of their way to ensure that they act honestly because the faintest possibility of whispers as to their integrity brings the fear and real likelihood that others will avoid playing with them.

 

[Smiffy]

I’m amazed at the cynicism displayed amongst golfers here; I wonder whether it is a part of our national character? I have played golf in other countries which have handicap systems based upon every 18 holes played. Handicaps become dynamic going up and down by the week to truly reflect your current state of play. In my experience golfers go out of their way to ensure that they act honestly because the faintest possibility of whispers as to their integrity brings the fear and real likelihood that others will avoid playing with them.

You have obviously not met a "hardened bandit"
Not cynicism.............. Experience.

 

[balaclava]

I am also not amazed to find that we (British) are true to many of the character traits given by the rest of the world. We defiantly believe that our system the best system because we invented it and we’re British and we resist change with the same gritted determination shown by those storming the Normandy beaches!

 

[balaclava]

I am also not surprised to find, in my conversation with other golfers here that few know that other countries don’t use the CONGU HC system. They presume that rest of the world follows our lead because we invented the game and we have the ‘Royal and Ancient’ and our ‘Open’ is just called THE Open and they have to put the name of their country before theirs – such arrogance!

 

[DCB]

balaclava,

"In my experience golfers go out of their way to ensure that they act honestly because the faintest possibility of whispers as to their integrity brings the fear and real likelihood that others will avoid playing with them. "

If that rings true then there should be no problem with the current system.

Whilst I agree in general with your suggestion that the current system is not ideal, there does not seem to be an easy answer as to how to changethe method or alter the current system.

The minimum three cards a season is easily worked round by those wanting to maintain or inflate their current handicap. I don't think that all cards in all games is an ideal situation as this too would be open to abuse.

The software manufacturers would probably welcome a change, unless they are contracted for software updates/upgrades to all the clubs that they supply. The last major change around 20 years ago was easy to impliment as all handicap records were done by hand.

The cynicism in the earlier posts is not aimed directly at you, more the system we have in use. It's not going to change so we just have to get on with it.

 

[KeefG]

Are you sure you're British?

You seem extremely embarrassed about being British....might I suggest you do one and go and live in another country of your choice? Preferrably one that uses a HC system you agree with whole heartedly!

 

[balaclava]

balaclava,

"In my experience golfers go out of their way to ensure that they act honestly because the faintest possibility of whispers as to their integrity brings the fear and real likelihood that others will avoid playing with them. "

If that rings true then there should be no problem with the current system.

There are many problems with the current system not least that it is not sufficiently dynamic to reflect the current state of play i.e. HC’s don’t go up and down by sufficient amount in a time frame to accurately reflect your game this month as opposed to last month but the main reason it can’t work is because a huge proportion of golfers don’t play in ‘qualifying’ competitions but play in other (social and club) comps alongside those that do. I believe (and it appears that CONGU agree) that they have a right to play their golf and play it with a HC, they (CONGU) contrive this ‘inactive’ HC to get around this conundrum. That means that the ‘inactive’ golfers stay with the same HC for life whether it truly reflects their game or not and they are playing alongside me in social and club comps. My solution is scrap the ‘qualifying’ comp and everybody put cards in for every 18 holes.

It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. Charles Darwin 1809-1882

 

[balaclava]

Are you sure you're British?

You seem extremely embarrassed about being British....might I suggest you do one and go and live in another country of your choice? Preferrably one that uses a HC system you agree with whole heartedly!

Ah – it appears you are from the FIOFO school of thought. That, I believe, is the same school attended by the architects of the CONGU system!

I am white, Anglo Saxon, native born, tax paying, English and proud to be British; not that that fact should have any bearing on the topic discussed here. I have had the good fortune to have lived and worked amongst other nationalities and other cultures which has perhaps helped me to have a lesser narrow minded view than some others.

 

[KeefG]

Are you sure you're British?

You seem extremely embarrassed about being British....might I suggest you do one and go and live in another country of your choice? Preferrably one that uses a HC system you agree with whole heartedly!

Ah – it appears you are from the FIOFO school of thought. That, I believe, is the same school attended by the architects of the CONGU system!

I am white, Anglo Saxon, native born, tax paying, English and proud to be British; not that that fact should have any bearing on the topic discussed here. I have had the good fortune to have lived and worked amongst other nationalities and other cultures which has perhaps helped me to have a lesser narrow minded view than some others.

I'm not in the FIOFO school of thought at all, I'm just staggered at how you managed to turn a discussion about handicaps and bandits into a British bashing thread in 1 fell swoop.

It just smacked of someone who doesnt want to be here!

 

[DCB]

balaclava,

When a players handicap becomes inactive they are not able to play in any event or competition that requires a CONGU handicap. we've had that up here for a number of years now. If someones handicap lapses or becomes inactive then until they get it reinstated by the correct mechanism they are unable to play in any event or comp that requires a live handicap. This would include club Matchplay knockout comps etc.

 

[SammmeBee]

balaclava,

When a players handicap becomes inactive they are not able to play in any event or competition that requires a CONGU handicap. we've had that up here for a number of years now. If someones handicap lapses or becomes inactive then until they get it reinstated by the correct mechanism they are unable to play in any event or comp that requires a live handicap. This would include club Matchplay knockout comps etc.

Only if your club chooses to do that - I don't believe it is mandatory to exclude inactive handicaps.....

 

[DCB]

Does that not come in with the Active / Inactive changes next year down South ?

 

[SammmeBee]

Yes but the Club can make a choice of allowing inactive handicaps acceptable in competitions - so you might make your open, club championship, board competitions only for active handicaps and leave the other competitions for anyone....

Obviously though if the Clubs don't bother then the system wil become a nonsense anyway....

 

[balaclava]

I believe the problem is we’ve lost sight of what we’re trying to achieve. Surely we’re trying to give golfers a handicap that enables them to compete against each other, isn’t that it and nothing else? Somewhere in the R&A/CONGU is a guy with far too much time on his hands that is good for him and no life outside of tweaking his handicap system. It clearly doesn’t work but it’s his Frankenstein and he’s going to tame that monster. To placate those who keep telling him of the problems he alters the rules so that we only need play three qualifying games a year and now we can had inactive handicaps. The game of the mid range golfers ebbs and flows and to get a true reflection of his game this month as opposed to last needs regular testing, 3 games a year just won’t do it. Then there’s the association games, the non qualifying games, the mixed games and the social games, what happens when the inactive handicapped golfer starts winning these games? Tell me why a handicap based on all 18 holes played off any tee would be less fare than the CONGU system?

 

[Parmo]

balaclava who pays for all the extra work placed onto the comps sec? I mean with say 200 members say playing on average twice a week that means he has 400 cards to sort out!!

Sorry but far too much work on them now as it is and the current system works fine, the old saying "if you don't like it, you know where the door is" springs to mind.

 

[Handycap]

I find this thread extremely interesting as I have not entered three qualifying cards for at least two years. I haven't played as regularly in the last four or five years as I used to ten years ago. Work, child and other family commitments have reduced my golfing hours, but I hope to make amends this season.

One of the reasons for my wanting to play more often is the investment I've made in new equipment, something I had rather neglected to do in the last 16 years. I find I am playing to or just below my handicap (off yellow tees), but I want to guarantee a valid handicap for my own personal satisfaction as well as the ability to play other courses that demand a current valid Handicap certificate.

I hope I am in the majority when I say most golfers strive to have a handicap that reflects their true ability rather than one that doesn't.