Acceptable movement

[Imurg]

To be fair, mostly they're trying to move the ball towards the flag, around front bunkers and the like. Also, as you said Murph, they like to take one side of the course out of play by having a stock shot.
Most average golfers haven't got a stock shot. They might try to but they have to make do with what comes off the clubface. Most don't have the necessary skill to produce a consistent shape like a 7 yard draw or whatever.

For the majority of golfers, being on the green is a sucess.
How it gets there is largely irrelevent.

 

[Crow]

Show me a tour pro who hits the ball straight?

If it was preferable, they would be doing it?

Apart from the extreme drawers and faders I don't know the shot shapes of ny tour pros. All I'm saying is that the deviation from your natural shape should be the same, whether your natural shape is draw, fade or straight.
I don't have a natural shape with my irons so try to hit them straight, but my deviation can be massive, not due to my choice of shape but because I'm crap.

 

[USER1999]

But in trying to hit them straight, you are making the game harder. If you are struggling to get a predictable direction trying to hit the ball straight, does this not prove that it isn't working.

Surely playing for a shape (draw or fade. makes no odds) would be more repeatable?

 

[DaveM]

Must admit I spent years trying to hit it straight. When my natural shot is a draw. Now I just play the draw. I set up to hit it straight down the middle, but it alway starts slightly to the left and draws back to the middle.(before anyone says thats a fade I'm lefthanded). So why did I fight it for so long. I just dont know stupid or what??

Oh I always fade with the 5wood but that has a slightly stiffer shaft. So it will do.

 

[Crow]

But in trying to hit them straight, you are making the game harder. If you are struggling to get a predictable direction trying to hit the ball straight, does this not prove that it isn't working.

Surely playing for a shape (draw or fade. makes no odds) would be more repeatable?

That's what I'm saying, straightish is my natural shape with my irons, at least there's no noticeable movement when I hit them well, so I aim straight at the target and with luck I'll be within 5 yards either side.

If I were to try and play to a draw or a fade then I'd be manufacturing something that didn't feel natural and even if I did manage it I'd still be happy with something within 5 yards either side, which would be my intended fade/draw, a bit of overdraw/fade or a straight shot.

 

[SocketRocket]

Hitting straight is very difficult.. The clubface must be square to target at impact and you must catch the ball at the exact widest part of the swing arc with the arc perfectly aligned to target. Not easy.

I think almost everyone hits the ball with some shape, some with very little shape. It is easier to hit a straightish shot when using a club with higher loft. The 'D Plane' becomes more upright as loft increases and this creates less sidespin.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I have all the shots (in theory) and just don't know when they will appear. Why make it harder for someone who is struggling with consistency to add the tarrif of having to shape it as well. I'll take hitting it straight and dealing with the outcome from there every time. Maybe in a far off universe when i get close to 9 or 10 I'll think about pin hunting by shaping shots but until then I'll stick with hitting it and trying to find it again

 

[USER1999]

Oddly, there are about three ways to hit a straight shot.

One, club face square, path square (at impact).

Two, club face closed, swing open by corresponding amount. Think it is about 2 degrees versus 7 degrees.

Three, vice versa.

None of these are easy.

Play a draw, you know it makes sense.

 

[ash01]

I wouldn't get too held up on the actual shape of the shot.

With a consistent crisp strike the ball will sub-conciously shape itself if ya get my drift.

Worrying about the swing plane/angle/face/angle and grip will only serve as a hinderance at address and through the swing.

Step up, visualise the shot and hit it.

Ash!!

 

[HawkeyeMS]

But hitting it straight is the hardest shot in golf. It is easier to put a bit of shape on it.

Is it harder to hit it straight than consistently with the exactly same amount of draw? At the end of the day, to hit the same shot over and over again you have to have the the mechanics and angles the same with every swing which is the difficult bit regardless of how you're trying to hit it.

What's the difference between trying to hit it straight a drawing it 2 yards or trying to hit a 5yd draw and drawing it 7 yds? With both shots you've tried to execute a specific shot and failed It's just to the naked eye , the straight shot i more noticably offline.

I tend to hit the ball pretty straight, sometimes it draws a bit, sometimes it fades a bit but the net result is it lands somewhere near where I aim it.

I think sometimes us h'cap golfers get a bit hung up on the perfect shot when in all reality, unless your really good, close enough is good enough.

 

[JustOne]

What's the difference between trying to hit it straight a drawing it 2 yards or trying to hit a 5yd draw and drawing it 7 yds? With both shots you've tried to execute a specific shot and failed It's just to the naked eye , the straight shot i more noticably offline.

It gives you a bigger miss and (should) help you score better.


Scale it down.... you are trying to make a straight putt and you hit it in the middle of the hole, if you hit it 2" right you've missed, if you hit it 2" left you've also missed....you miss both ways.

Now if you know you are prone to pushing your putts (call it a fade with an iron shot) then you can aim just inside the left edge of the hole and push it up to 3½" and it will STILL GO IN because that is your miss and you are playing to your strengths. As long as you don't pull it.... but you won't as you've set up to hit your usual fade putt (whatever that is!)

Same applies to the green, as long as you get the shot to START curving in the right direction there's a huge margin for error.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

It gives you a bigger miss and (should) help you score better.

Sorry JO, you're gonna have to explain that one. How does it give you a bigger miss? Assuming the starting point is the ball on the fairway and the target is the cup, they both miss 2 yards left don't they?

In my rather simplistic approach to hitting a golf ball, I fail to see how, as a 10 handicapper, playing for a draw will improve my scores. I'm never gonna hit the same shot every time so my draw is either gonna miss left if it draws more than usual or right if it draws less in the same way that my pretty straight shots miss a bit left or a bit right? As long as my margin for error either way is consistent and keeps me on the green that's good enough.

 

[CMAC]

Paraphrasing Mr Morecambe "I'm hitting all the correct shots, but not necessarily in the right order"

:clap:

 

[JustOne]

I play with a 4yrd fade.... and you play with a 2yrd each way miss, which is better?

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[Crow]

Sorry JO, you're gonna have to explain that one. How does it give you a bigger miss? Assuming the starting point is the ball on the fairway and the target is the cup, they both miss 2 yards left don't they?

In my rather simplistic approach to hitting a golf ball, I fail to see how, as a 10 handicapper, playing for a draw will improve my scores. I'm never gonna hit the same shot every time so my draw is either gonna miss left if it draws more than usual or right if it draws less in the same way that my pretty straight shots miss a bit left or a bit right? As long as my margin for error either way is consistent and keeps me on the green that's good enough.

This is what I've been trying to say, the target doesn't get any bigger if I play a draw, the amount left or right of the target will still be the same depending on how much I over or under draw my shot.
If by drawing my consistency went up then I'd agree, but it doesn't, I'm still 5 yards either side of my target.

 

[One Planer]

I can see where James is going. The only thing it rquires is a consistant shot shape or stock shot.

If you have a stock shot, use J1's example of a fade, and are hitting into a green.

If you hit your stock shot exactly as planned and get the shape you want, you hit your target.

If you play for the fade and it goes straight, you're not going to miss by much. Only by what you allow for the fade.

The only time I can think this wouldn' work would be if you were to hook it, or, over cook the fade into a slice???

Most of my shots with woods and long irons fade, so I start my shots to the left and allow for it. If I hit it straight I only miss my landing area by the amount I've allowed for the fade.

 

[JustOne]

This is what I've been trying to say, the target doesn't get any bigger if I play a draw, the amount left or right of the target will still be the same depending on how much I over or under draw my shot.
If by drawing my consistency went up then I'd agree, but it doesn't, I'm still 5 yards either side of my target.

You guys are hard work! LOL

OK taking your example a putt left 3 foot short is as good as one that is 3 feet past?

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Neither, that's my point, unless you hit the same shot every single time without fail there are margins for error. To hit the same shot everytime , everything has to be the same. The fade in your diagram isn't always going to follow that path, if you fade it less you'll be left of the pin, if you fade it more you'll be right of it. Assuming the margin for error between your fade and my straight shot is the same then the proximaty the the pin for both of us will on average be the same.

the shape of the shot makes no difference. there's no point me learning a fade if it can hit it pretty close hitting it straight in the same way there's no point learning to hit a draw if you hit a fade. If what you have gets you close to the hole consistently where's the problem?

Nice drawing by the way

 

[JustOne]

Tiger Woods has been working on shaping the ball for 14 months....

For his part, Foley said Woods’ swing still wasn’t fully reflective of what they’ve been working on for 14 months.
“Half of his swings were the way I want it and half were a hybrid of what he used to do,” Foley said.
The coach said the intention is for Woods to take half the course out of play, preferrably the left side.
“We want to cut it, but properly, not a blocky, wipey cut,” Foley said

Ben Hogan said he never hit a straight shot on purpose.....

The modern "hit everything straight" mentality just leads to eternal frustration. It's like trying to throw a frisbee perfectly straight every time. Much easier to curve it on target.

Jack Nicklaus.....

A perfectly straight shot with a big club is a fluke

Nicklaus,Hogan, Woods.... I don't know why they don't just hit it straight like you!

Tigers wasted 14 months! Why not drop him an email and tell him you've found a better way....."

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Tiger Woods has been working on shaping the ball for 14 months....




Ben Hogan said he never hit a straight shot on purpose.....




Jack Nicklaus.....



Nicklaus,Hogan, Woods.... I don't know why they don't just hit it straight like you!

Tigers wasted 14 months! Why not drop him an email and tell him you've found a better way....."

All well and good but I'm not saying straight is better. I just happen to hit it pretty straight and It works for me. I don't see how learning to hit a draw or fade would make me a better player. If I hit a fade naturally then I'd work with that. The whole premise of my argument is for h'cap golfers like most of us, unless you have plenty of time, there is no point trying to hit a certain shape shot. If you hit a fade, play with a fade, if you hit a draw, play with a draw and if you happen to hit it fairly straight hit the damn thing straight. As long as what you do is fairly consistent and gets you on or near the green most of the time, you can be a good player. You'll probably never reach plus figures or turn pro but most of us won't do that anyway.

You said it yourself, Tiger has spent 14 months trying to hit it the way he wants and he still can't do it so what chance has the average joe got to change their swing from a draw to a fade or vice versa?

Personally I'd love to hit a consistent fade, I spent a year learning to do just that but you have to ask yourself how long your going to spend looking for the perfect shot shape when you could spend that time learning how to play with what you've got and getting to a pretty good handicap.