A Tweet from Caroline Lucas MP

[Val]

On the golf courses I used to manage I built in safe public walking routes on them, even a cycle route on one. [which was grant aided]
Worked very well and separated the walkers\cyclists from the golfers. Something I am quite proud of.
Perhaps some of the private clubs should consider this if they have a problem.

Mines has this and it works when players are playing but not just now it doesn't.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

I’d say Hobbits response sums it up. It should be up to the clubs to allow people to roam them or not. Of course that would then now doubt lead to calls of people being able to play.

Yes, it's obvious. If the courses were opened to the public to roam , exercise,,walk, whatever on them, do you really think that they would walk in ones. Of course they would walk in groups, families etc.
So, it would mean relaxing the "drive to" rule.
And that rule is the only reason the courses are shut. How many of us would not be on the course playing if the drive to rule was relaxed and you could play on your own.
I suggest- all of us.
If it would be all right to drive to a golf course for the public to walk it, it would b all right for them to drive to open public places and walk them, as was done before this virus.
And golfers who have paid for the right to play could drive to their course and play.
End of.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Yes, it's obvious. If the courses were opened to the public to roam , exercise,,walk, whatever on them, do you really think that they would walk in ones. Of course they would walk in groups, families etc.
So, it would mean relaxing the "drive to" rule.
And that rule is the only reason the courses are shut. How many of us would not be on the course playing if the drive to rule was relaxed and you could play on your own.
I suggest- all of us.
If it would be all right to drive to a golf course for the public to walk it, it would b all right for them to drive to open public places and walk them, a small was done before this virus.
And golfers who have paid for the right to play could drive to their course and play.
End of.

There are people who live near golf courses and can walk to them. A golf course would be treated exactly the same as parks, open spaces are now, with the advice being don't drive to them. Not that difficult.

 

[Robster59]

Ours is far enough away from most housing that you have to drive there anyway which would rule it out on non-essential travel.
The crux of this to me is that it would still require people to break the non-essential travel rule. In Scotland, there are plenty of places to walk if you can drive there. Just near us is the Whitelee Wind Farm which has 130km of tracks for people to walk/ride/run on but still requires travel to get there. That would be more practical than any golf course in the area. If you could drive there............

 

[clubchamp98]

There are people who live near golf courses and can walk to them. A golf course would be treated exactly the same as parks, open spaces are now, with the advice being don't drive to them. Not that difficult.

Your right it’s not difficult.
But people are still doing it , so they will drive to golf courses to.
With the car parks closed they will be causing traffic in surrounding roads and parking problems ,
With people all at home I have noticed a lot of cars already parked outside houses where they live.
Golf courses are not parks or play areas, they have unfenced water, ditches and steep slopes.
How long before someone drowns , breaks leg slipping on a steep bank etc.
All requiring emergency services.
They are closed and should remain like that.

 

[YandaB]

It's interesting that the person who has started the petition, Guy Shrubsole, describes himself as "Guy Shrubsole: Activist, writer, troublemaker." on his blog about "Who owns England".

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Ours is far enough away from most housing that you have to drive there anyway which would rule it out on non-essential travel.
The crux of this to me is that it would still require people to break the non-essential travel rule. In Scotland, there are plenty of places to walk if you can drive there. Just near us is the Whitelee Wind Farm which has 130km of tracks for people to walk/ride/run on but still requires travel to get there. That would be more practical than any golf course in the area. If you could drive there............

Me and Mrs Hogie went a walk there a few years back. We only meant to walk for about an hour tops - but we took the wrong turning and ended up doing 7 miles (all the way round the loch) It's a lovely place to walk - but yes - a heck of a walk from Broom. Good cycleway to it though...so cycle there and then walk?

 

[Swinglowandslow]

There are people who live near golf courses and can walk to them. A golf course would be treated exactly the same as parks, open spaces are now, with the advice being don't drive to them. Not that difficult.

What's with the not that difficult comment?
I know there are people who live near....etc, but as far as I can see, I don't think the proposed use of courses for walking will be limited to those within walking distance. Is the lady limiting her proposal to those people? I'm not so sure.
Now for another possible problem. Suppose we have walkers and golfers together on courses where walkers haven't been before, will the insurance of the golfers be valid? I know that there are some courses where this obtains, ( munis etc), but "a change from the norm" is what may cause an insurance claim to be rejected..
would you or the Club risk testing their insurance liability?
All questions to be considered if allowing her proposal.
One final point. After seeing the sense of responsibility of a lot of the public, do you think they will respect the course?

 

[User62651]

Looking at Lucas's tweet the idea was someone else's so perhaps just a genuine 'this could be good for people' comment rather than a leftist political thing?

 

[Hacker Khan]

What's with the not that difficult comment?
I know there are people who live near....etc, but as far as I can see, I don't think the proposed use of courses for walking will be limited to those within walking distance. Is the lady limiting her proposal to those people? I'm not so sure.
Now for another possible problem. Suppose we have walkers and golfers together on courses where walkers haven't been before, will the insurance of the golfers be valid? I know that there are some courses where this obtains, ( munis etc), but "a change from the norm" is what may cause an insurance claim to be rejected..
would you or the Club risk testing their insurance liability?
All questions to be considered if allowing her proposal.
One final point. After seeing the sense of responsibility of a lot of the public, do you think they will respect the course?

In order of highlighted points

• Yes it will be as that as the current government advice is don't drive to beaches, parks etc for exercise or fresh air. Golf courses would be treated the same and there would not be an exclusion to say you can drive to golf courses but not the rest.
• The proposal is for using currently large areas of space that is currently closed to be reopened during the current crisis. Once golfers are back golfing then the proposal is not to keep people randomly walking across courses whilst golfers are playing, people can then go back to driving to the countryside, parks,seaside etc just as we have always done.
• The media are highlighting some relatively rare cases of the public being dicks. The majority of the public respecting the advice and staying at home does not make for a news story. There always has been and always will be the occasional dick. But the vast majority of people are behaving responsibly and would continue to do that if they are walking in the park or down a fairway.

I am not that swayed wither way in this argument to be honest, I think it would be a nice gesture by courses to help out people who are local to their courses a bit with some more space to exercise. But in the grand scheme of things it would not open up more space to get outside to a massive amount of people. But there does seem to be a lot of people who are rightly behind the nation getting through this crisis. as long as it does not involve people walking on a golf course whilst they are not being used for golf.

 

[Beezerk]

Surely if a course is opened up to exercise on, it should also be open to play golf on.
As has already been mentioned, there will likely be zero social distancing if the public were walking around, the golfers I saw just before the closure were all sticking to the rules impeccably.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Surely if a course is opened up to exercise on, it should also be open to play golf on.
As has already been mentioned, there will likely be zero social distancing if the public were walking around, the golfers I saw just before the closure were all sticking to the rules impeccably.

Why? Does the fact that a park is still open mean you can play football on it? The proposal is for them to be opened as an area of space for people to walk/run to and then perform mostly solo exercising like walking/running on. And why will a relatively few people walking round a golf course not be able to exercise social distancing?

 

[clubchamp98]

Surely if a course is opened up to exercise on, it should also be open to play golf on.
As has already been mentioned, there will likely be zero social distancing if the public were walking around, the golfers I saw just before the closure were all sticking to the rules impeccably.

I see the logic as it’s a non contact sport.
One other thing that crossed my mind is .

The public are getting on to have a walk ,but how long before people just take a few clubs to knock a ball if nobody’s about.
You then have a accident waiting to happen where someone is hit with a ball.
I was hit on the head last year, knocked me out, a and e , ambulance job , head scan and vertigo for several weeks it’s not very nice.
But if a child was hit because family outings were allowed ,is there a potential for a lawsuit against the club.
Some people will play on the course ,it’s already happened at my club people jumping on to play.

 

[Beezerk]

Why? Does the fact that a park is still open mean you can play football on it? The proposal is for them to be opened as an area of space for people to walk/run to and then perform mostly solo exercising like walking/running on. And why will a relatively few people walking round a golf course not be able to exercise social distancing?

I'm just going on what I've seen in the local woods, groups of people quite clearly not following the code.
I'd say there could be mass parties on some golf courses, on a holes tucked away out of sight, cans of Carling littered around, bbq scorch marks on the green.
Ok, maybe that was a touch ott ?

 

[User62651]

I'm just going on what I've seen in the local woods, groups of people quite clearly not following the code.
I'd say there could be mass parties on some golf courses, on a holes tucked away out of sight, cans of Carling littered around, bbq scorch marks on the green.
Ok, maybe that was a touch ott ?

That sounds like Balnagask muni in Torry, Aberdeen to be fair, without the trees (links)?

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Why? Does the fact that a park is still open mean you can play football on it? The proposal is for them to be opened as an area of space for people to walk/run to and then perform mostly solo exercising like walking/running on. And why will a relatively few people walking round a golf course not be able to exercise social distancing?

You are making the mistake that you think everyone will behave as you would.
You would walk on the ( privately maintained at private expense) area of land and not do any damage, observe social distancing etc.
But everyone will not.
And do you not think it ironic, that Jack John and Joe can walk on a golf course, but the member cannot do so and occasionally swing a club at a ball.?
If he could swing a club on his golf course, then you open the possibilities of accidents, insurance, etc already mentioned.
Be aware, I am not advocating a change in government policy about exercise etc - I am not suggesting we golfers should be allowed on the Course in the face of present limitations.
What I am saying is, that if walkers are allowed on golf courses, so should members, observing the same limitations ,be allowed to play the course.
And that would cause the mentioned problems.
Conclusion? Keep the status quo.

 

[Hacker Khan]

You are making the mistake that you think everyone will behave as you would.
You would walk on the ( privately maintained at private expense) area of land and not do any damage, observe social distancing etc.
But everyone will not.
And do you not think it ironic, that Jack John and Joe can walk on a golf course, but the member cannot do so and occasionally swing a club at a ball.?
If he could swing a club on his golf course, then you open the possibilities of accidents, insurance, etc already mentioned.
Be aware, I am not advocating a change in government policy about exercise etc - I am not suggesting we golfers should be allowed on the Course in the face of present limitations.
What I am saying is, that if walkers are allowed on golf courses, so should members, observing the same limitations ,be allowed to play the course.
And that would cause the mentioned problems.
Conclusion? Keep the status quo.

So essentially if the members can't use the course for golf then no one can for walking?

 

[Blue in Munich]

So essentially if the members can't use the course for golf then no one can for walking?

Essentially, why should members be paying subs to maintain a facility for the general public to misuse as a public park when said members can't use it for its designed purpose?

 

[MegaSteve]

Just returned from my daily allowance... I get out, through the woods, to Haste Hill and Northwood golf courses... Both were 'busy' with walkers... From what I observed all were respecting the course... Did give a polite warning to one family, with young kids in tow, that the greens had been top dressed and best avoided...

 

[Swinglowandslow]

So essentially if the members can't use the course for golf then no one can for walking?

Yes, and here is one very good reason why. This is true.
One of my other hobbies is flying radio controlled model gliders on the top,of hills- slope soaring.
Some years ago, we were doing this , with the permission of the farmer on whose land we flying.
A non member of our club , doing the same thing , had his wife with him. Long story short she injured herself on the farmers gate.
Man sued the farmer! Claimed on his insurance.
First we knew was when the farmer chucked us off in a rage some weeks later because his solicitor had told him he had to pay.
The law had held that as he had implicitly given permission for the man to be there, then the farmer had a duty of care to anyone he allows on his land in that if anyone injures himself on the farmers equipment, gates,fences etc, then the farmer is liable.!
No wonder he drove up and told us to ----- off!
It was later resolved in that we agreed in writing not to sue,that we were there at our own risk etc, - and on that basis he gave us permission to be there.
So, why should a (struggling )golf club open themselves up to a similar possibility.?