A question for the rules experts

[Swango1980]

They are not better, just more knowledgeable on the rules.
Maybe if they were less patronising, they might get on better

Anybody can be patronising. A referee can be patronising. A player who is being told the rule can be patronising in their response.

That is just an individual's personality. I doubt this personality trait is something that is required to become a referee. So, perhaps you have just come across a referee with a less than likable personality?

That being said, it is also probably natural to think of a person as patronizing when they are informing you of a rule, especially if you do not agree with the outcome of the rule? It can be a bit like "shooting the messenger". I wouldn't be surprised if many golfers think that they can somehow negotiate themselves to a better outcome, and start to get annoyed when the rule (and the referee doesn't allow it). And I wouldn't be surprised if experienced referees start getting tired when non-expert golfers start to argue their cause, despite the fact that the referee is the one who has got all the qualifications on the matter.

 

[doublebogey7]

Yes , but I believe the powers that be state it can't be used in comps?

In Engand it can't be used when submitting any score for handicapping. The international bodies have authorised a rule but it is the national body that is not allowing it to be used, which to me is crazy.

 

[D-S]

In Engand it can't be used when submitting any score for handicapping. The international bodies have authorised a rule but it is the national body that is not allowing it to be used, which to me is crazy.

Are there any other agreed rules of golf (albeit Model Local Rules) that national bodies refuse always to have in place in their competitions?

 

[Wendy Dominick]

As a rule expert, I feel qualified to weigh in here.

The one rule I hate most of all, is that you can only wait 10 seconds for a ball hanging on the edge of the cup to drop in. I think it's ridiculous and completely against the spirit of the game. We have those comedy moments where the players sit and watch it fall in, then the light-hearted moment is shattered when they realise it took 12 seconds and it's "screw you, that's another shot". It's out of order and doesn't make any sense since you're not supposed to hit a moving ball anyway. The ball fell in under it's own steam, it should be counted no matter how long it takes. I'm sure there's never been a recorded case where it took longer than a minute to drop anyway, so if people are waiting all day then they're taking the mick, you just tell them to get on with it. It's a very stupid rule.

I also think amateur club golf should be pick and place all year round, and I will die on this hill. In situations like the heatwave we've just had, you often get even worse lies than you do in winter when the grass is a little fluffy. As amateurs we play for fun and should be rewarded with a decent lie if you hit a fairway in my view. And this would take care of the 'landing in a divot' problem nicely.

The 10 second Rule was adopted in 1964 after Don January waited over 7 minutes for the ball to drop. https://www.golfcompendium.com/2020/07/golf-10-second-rule-incident-phoenix-open.html. It's amazing to me that players and commentators just don't get this Rule. Both will comment that they think the ball is still moving. That has nothing to do with it! After 10 seconds the al is deemed to be at rest.

 

[Orikoru]

The 10 second Rule was adopted in 1964 after Don January waited over 7 minutes for the ball to drop. https://www.golfcompendium.com/2020/07/golf-10-second-rule-incident-phoenix-open.html. It's amazing to me that players and commentators just don't get this Rule. Both will comment that they think the ball is still moving. That has nothing to do with it! After 10 seconds the al is deemed to be at rest.

He was stupid to wait that long - it sounds like he was simply hoping the wind would blow it in, rather than a ball teetering on the edge. All that was required was someone to say "stop being an idiot and tap it in". We didn't need a new rule that punishes golfers all across the world for the next 60 years with unnecessary penalty shots because of it.

 

[rulefan]

Wendy

Nice to see you here.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

He was stupid to wait that long - it sounds like he was simply hoping the wind would blow it in, rather than a ball teetering on the edge. All that was required was someone to say "stop being an idiot and tap it in". We didn't need a new rule that punishes golfers all across the world for the next 60 years with unnecessary penalty shots because of it.

“Punish” - you aren’t being punished

I can’t recall a single time where a ball has dropped after more than 10 seconds

 

[Steve Wilkes]

He was stupid to wait that long - it sounds like he was simply hoping the wind would blow it in, rather than a ball teetering on the edge. All that was required was someone to say "stop being an idiot and tap it in". We didn't need a new rule that punishes golfers all across the world for the next 60 years with unnecessary penalty shots because of it.

You do realise, it's not a penalty shot, it's just deemed that you have holed the putt on the next shot. There has to be a cut off time limit for it to drop, otherwise it's like saying why 3 minutes to find a ball, when you know you will find it eventually

 

[Swango1980]

He was stupid to wait that long - it sounds like he was simply hoping the wind would blow it in, rather than a ball teetering on the edge. All that was required was someone to say "stop being an idiot and tap it in". We didn't need a new rule that punishes golfers all across the world for the next 60 years with unnecessary penalty shots because of it.

Not sure how stupidity is defined. But, clearly he felt he could wait 7 minutes at the time. Nobody came on to tell him otherwise. I doubt he was the only person in the world who would have done this. It may have been done many other times at many levels of the game, but this particular time it was very high profile. Thus the rule was changed.

I note that this was SIXTY years ago. In the 60 years since, I really do not think this 10 second rule is causing headaches and problems within the golfing world?

 

[doublebogey7]

Are there any other agreed rules of golf (albeit Model Local Rules) that national bodies refuse always to have in place in their competitions?

That I don't know as I only play my competitive golf in the UK, but am guessing there might be.

 

[D-S]

That I don't know as I only play my competitive golf in the UK, but am guessing there might be.

But this is the only one that Golf GB&I refuse to adopt?

 

[clubchamp98]

Id like a return to 5 minutes to look for a ball. Not because it will improve the chances of finding it, but because it gives more opportunity to let the group behind through while looking.

Yes three minutes has made it worse imo.
It’s not long enough to let a game through so people don’t anymore.

I would add a footprint in a bunker.!
It’s bad enough being in a bunker without some lazy golfers footprint to deal with.
One at ours lately they had stepped over the rake to play and get out .

 

[clubchamp98]

As I understand it our handicapping authorities do not allow rounds to be qualifying when it is in place effectively abandoning any hope of utilising it.
It should in my view be part of the RoG , not something that is never effectively available.

I think it was the dropping on the fairway that was the problem!

If you had to drop 2 club lengths from the boundary where you went oob with a 2 shot penalty it might be more popular.

 

[Deleted member 35927]

I think it was the dropping on the fairway that was the problem!

If you had to drop 2 club lengths from the boundary where you went oob with a 2 shot penalty it might be more popular.

Like a penalty area but a 2 shot pen. Works for me.

 

[clubchamp98]

Like a penalty area but a 2 shot pen. Works for me.

You would need a staked out drop zone for all lengths of players.
Not dismissing it but more work for the greens staff??

Two CLs from where you went over the boundary of the course is what I think most golfers would accept.
It was stupid to think you could drop on the fairway after going oob imo of course!

You could be lucky and get a lovely lie ,but you might be in the long stuff.
But you would always have your provisional or a walk back to the tee as back up.

 

[D-S]

You would need a staked out drop zone for all lengths of players.
Not dismissing it but more work for the greens staff??

Two CLs from where you went over the boundary of the course is what I think most golfers would accept.
It was stupid to think you could drop on the fairway after going oob imo of course!

You could be lucky and get a lovely lie ,but you might be in the long stuff.
But you would always have your provisional or a walk back to the tee as back up.

Note this rule is also for lost balls as well as out of bounds, so you would need to estimate the spot where the ball was lost and, in this scenario, drop 2 CL from there.

 

[clubchamp98]

Note this rule is also for lost balls as well as out of bounds, so you would need to estimate the spot where the ball was lost and, in this scenario, drop 2 CL from there.

Yes but as written (correct me if I’m wrong) after looking for your ball in the cabbage you could walk 90 degrees and drop on the fairway.
That’s what most golfers found baffling.
The ones I know any way.

If your looking in the rough you should drop in the place your looking that would be ok for me.
Going to the fairway was mad.

 

[D-S]

Yes but as written (correct me if I’m wrong) after looking for your ball in the cabbage you could walk 90 degrees and drop on the fairway.
That’s what most golfers found baffling.
The ones I know any way.

If your looking in the rough you should drop in the place your looking that would be ok for me.
Going to the fairway was mad.

I agree - the only thing I would say is that we sometimes play this rule (dropping on the fairway) in our roll up or if we're away somewhere, just so, if we can't find someone's ball (and there's no way they're going back to the tee or the spot from where they played there last shot), then they can drop one down and at least play out the rest of the hole, especially if you are at an away course. In the times we've done this the person involved has rarely contributed to the team or pair so it hasn't really helped them.

 

[Steve Wilkes]

Yes but as written (correct me if I’m wrong) after looking for your ball in the cabbage you could walk 90 degrees and drop on the fairway.
That’s what most golfers found baffling.
The ones I know any way.

If your looking in the rough you should drop in the place your looking that would be ok for me.
Going to the fairway was mad.

But then we are back to the non-time saving scenario, who would drop in the rough if they could go back to the tee and take their chances of hitting the fairway with 3 off the tee

 

[jim8flog]

Only one comes to immediate mind. ( I had already suggested to the R.&A. they drop this one.)

A penalty for teeing off before the tee time.

It goes against Ready Golf and keeping up with the group in front of you. It harms no one provided you are not pushing the group in front.