4 birdies and an eagle yesterday - yet incredibly.....

[StrangelyBrown]

True, money can't buy talent.

It does buy shiney things though

 

[patricks148]

I agree to a certain extent with the original post, unless you are 7 foot tall or a short ar*se. The guys a play with on a regular basis are all low single figures and non have been CF for anything.
I played for a couple of years with just off the shelf stuff and went from a 24 to a 10 handicap with GI irons in that time. I wanted to get a nicer set of irons and Mizuno offered this as part of the package so went cos of that. I can see once you were down to a certain level it might be worth while for a scratch player or a very low handicap. I don’t have a consistent enough swing to get full benefit from it so I can’t see how a 20 handicapper would either

 

[Snelly]

Snelly interesting post. Were you one of those annoying kids at school that was in the first team for everything and got grades as well?

I'm 6'4" an either hurt my back or top the ball using standard clubs. I also think having the right shaft helps. If you are using ten year old irons you obviously picked a very good set for you and weren't foolish so didn't change them.

Yes I was one of those kids! Sorry!

And yes, if you are 6 foot 4 then I accept you need longer shafts.

 

[Snelly]

I agree with a lot of what you say Snelly - wise words.

But some degree of custom fit surely takes place, even when you hit 10 balls with your Rapture or 10 balls with your hybrid. If the club didn't feel right, had the wrong shaft or didn't hit the ball on the trajectory that you wanted, then you wouldn't use it. So in effect you've - to a point - custom fitted yourself.

Also the premise that no custom fitting is useful, I think, is flawed. You, Sir, are blessed with natural ability with a club in your hands. By your own admission you don't practice much these days but still have the game to shoot par or better. I think you're looking at the custom fit scenario from your own perspective a bit too much. It wouldn't help you - I'm quite prepared to admit that. But it would help lesser players, who's swings don't allow them to get to the ball quite as cleanly as you. A more flexible shaft that helps get the ball in the air for a slower swinger - give Smiffy a driver with an Extra-Stiff shaft and the World would probably end!

Custom fitting is, I feel, the fine-tuning. Making sure you can get the best from your game. Yes, I agree, find some irons and stick with them - that has to be the best bet. But how do you get the right ones to start with? Give a player a standard 6 iron from manufacturer A - he may balloon the ball because of his swing or he may struggle to get the ball off the ground - put a shaft in the head that makes the flight correct and who is the winner? The manufacturer still makes a sale but the Golfer has a club he can use. Substitute a shaft or spend months on the range trying to find a swing that will get the ball in the air using a club that has the wrong shaft in it..?

As we all have different swings there has to be an element of Custom Fitting involved in the buying of kit. Even it's as simple as making sure you have R300 shafts instead of X100 - it's still custom fitting.

One last thing Snelly. Have you ever tried Custom Fitting? If not, how do you know that it won't help?

Still a lot of wise words though Mate!!

You are right of course that by my choosing the clubs I have over what I had previously then I am self fitting. A few shots to compare my existing clubs with some new ones is enough for me to know if they are better.

And yes, you make a good point that a specific shaft could help to get more elevation. That said, this isn't rocket science and trying a few 7 irons and buying the one that goes highest seems easy enough if that is what you need.

As for custom fitting, no I have never tried it. THe closest I have ever come was at the Belfry when a Wilson rep their was trying to baffle me with science about the neccesity to have this shaft and that head etc but I thought he was full of the preverbial frankly.

I don't feel the need to try it either and the my own personal reasoning behind that stance is that I don't play golf for a living so it is not that important to get the 1 or 2% improvement that it may deliver (if any!).

The second reason is that basically I think it is mostly about marketing so my skepticism would probably outweigh any benefit!

You make some very good points though Murg.

 

[Snelly]

Congrats Snelly on the great round.

Although we have had this debate many times on here I do find it interesting and geninely have mixed views and pretty much agree with Imurg. I guess I'm in the "get fitted up to a point" camp but don't think full c/f will work miracles.

I believe that you do need to have something that is basically set up for you in terms of shaft flex, length and weight, lie, grip thickness and head design. However, I do have my doubts about how much any marginal benefits from the diffent ball flights that diffent shafts produce will impact on how a middle of the road handicapper scores. On the other hand the better the player, the easier it is for them to play with anything that's roughly right.

Nothing in my bag was c/fitted for me but it was all chosen to suit my game. I played great for a dozen years with an off the shelf set of TP21's recommended by my pro which I chose over T-Zoid Pro's after hitting lots of shots on the range. I do know that I hit my current MX25s with light weight regular shafts a lot better and futher than my MP30's with standard stiff shafts that I switched to after my TP21s. Age and illness caught up with me. I hit a few different demo clubs and had a session with the Mizuno DNA thing to get an idea of what was right for me then bought a second hand set with about the right specs. They had actually been custom fitted for someone else! Maybe a full c/f would find a better combination which would produce the goods in terms of launch monitor numbers but the question is how much that would affect my actual scoring. It wouldn't stop me pulling my tee shot on a par 3 20 yards left or duffing my chips, which are what really cost me shots.

Thing is golf is a complex game. There is so much more to putting a good round of golf together than whether you have the "right" clubs. They help but only up to a point.

Maybe Tiger's right Snelly, and you were lucky or wise enough to get a set that just happened to be bang on for you and very sensibly have stuck with them. Clearly you are a fine golfer and as Imurg says that makes a difference too.

May be GM could arrange a full c/f for you and see what it shows then let you play with them for a year and track your progress. Could also get a real c/f advocate to play with an off the shelf set as a parallel study. Might be fun.

An erudite response! As ever....

I'd be delighted to try a CF set versus my current clubs on a driving range as an experiment. The only caveat being that I would not want to hear any of the discussion that the fitter might normally have with the fittee..

The reason being that I would not want to hear the technical reasoning for any shaft or club choice as when I return to my normal clubs and play, I would not want to have the clutter of this information anywhere near my mind when swinging a club.

 

[Snelly]

Hmmm, I'm not sure your qualified to make that statement. As you have never been custom fitted in your life, how do you know it won't make any difference to your game?

Because it won't. It is a process designed to sell clubs, not improve my ability to bring the clubface back square at speed through the hitting area.

I agree with the point you make about creating confidence though and I am sure the CF process helps some in this regard. Not me though as I am cynical about it.

 

[Snelly]

having seen you hit a ball snelly its no wonder you didnt need a custom fit or the latest bats, your swing is a thing of beauty. but the question remains how did your game arrive at the stage it is at?

Long hours on the range with lessons
Home teaching from a food family member

Well that is most kind - thanks.

I have never had many lessons really although as a kid in Sheffield, Pete Cowan used to run classes for the best juniors in the Sheffield Union and I went to these.

Basically, I was taught to play by my grandfather who was a scratch player and put cut off hickory shafted clubs in my hands from the age of about 7. My game progressed through my early teens and this was down to playing 36 holes most weekdays plus loads of range practice during the summer holidays. My mum dropped me off on her way to work and I was at the club all day until she collected me in the evenings.

I also think that my swing got grooved by swinging a club most days in front of our garage window. A big plate glass window which was basically a mirror. Great for ensuring my head was still and my shoulders turned properly. I spent a few minutes most days hitting two tees next to each other out of the ground in front of that window!

So in summary, a family member taught me and I played a lot as a child.

 

[Tiger]

Yes I was one of those kids! Sorry!

Git

 

[sev112]

Snelly, you talk a lot of sense, and you are no doubt right that there is a big marketing effort involved iwth many companies. But the process is exactly designed to bring the club head back square (or whatever) - they certainly dont endeavour to make it open or closed ! ?
And what about those very small companies that dont market like the big guys - they do the same fittings, but i see no massive marketing campaign ?

 

[Snelly]

Snelly, you talk a lot of sense, and you are no doubt right that there is a big marketing effort involved iwth many companies. But the process is exactly designed to bring the club head back square (or whatever) - they certainly dont endeavour to make it open or closed ! ?
And what about those very small companies that dont market like the big guys - they do the same fittings, but i see no massive marketing campaign ?

I would argue that players and techniques are what bring the club back square and the clubs are the tool you use when you do it.

And as to the company size and amount spent on marketing, you make a fair point but I would counter argue that everyone is doing this to help sell clubs and the smaller players feel the need to do it in order to keep up with the giants.