4 birdies and an eagle yesterday - yet incredibly.....

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Snelly

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Played yesterday at a course called Singing Hills in Sussex. It is a relatively new track but a good enough test and in very good condition.

I had a mixed day with three birdies on the front nine and an eagle and a birdie on the back nine. One of the birdies resulted from a missed eagle putt from 5 feet too! All that said, I missed a few short putts on some other holes and put a ball into a water harzard too. Managed 37 points in the end and was playing off 3 so not bad but should have been better.

Anyway, the thing that dawned on me as I read some of the other threads on here this morning was that I managed to play quite well and get said birdies etc despite the fact that I have never been custom fitted for a club in my life. I have bought all my clubs based on hitting 10 or so balls with them in comparison to others that I liked the look and feel of. Nor do I have a GPS. And my irons are 10 years old with worn grips!

I don't decry any of you for going down the custom fitted route or going on a trackman or having lessons all the time. It is up to you, it is your money and all that.... However the point I have made before and am making again is that the latest equipment, technology and flavour of the month swing are all part of a massive marketing machine designed to convince golfers that the latest club is the greatest and will make all the difference. It won't. I would go as far as saying that for 95%+ of golfers, buying new equipment, whilst it may put a smile on your face (which is great by the way) won't make any difference to your handicap.

The reason for posting this is that so many of the posts on this forum are about clubs. New clubs and the minutiae of specification detail; lie angle, loft, shaft, kick-point, smash something or other... Or how they should be fitted to your swing and so on... It is mostly irrelevant in my view. Get a decent set of clubs from a decent maker and stick with them. Play lots of golf and you will get better. Ignore the hype.

And before anyone says it. No, my round yesterday would not have been any better if I had played with custom fitted clubs and used a GPS!!!! :-)
 
Singing Hills....played it quite a few times when I ran a large society. Not a bad track, food is nice!!

I fully agree with what you are saying Snelly. I keep mentioning it, but a mate of mine (Greg Lindley) plays with the cheapest set of clubs you could imagine. He bought each iron seperately from JJB Sports until he had made up his "set". I think they are Slazenger irons and cost him about £8.00 a club. He plays off 11 (not officially because he is not a member of a club) and hits his irons like God. The only thing that lets him down is his chipping and putting, but when that is on he is capable of some serious scoring.
He played at Rookwood the other week and was 1 under gross on the front 9, 6 over on the back. Last week at Lindfield he scored 38 points, but had 5 (yes 5) birdies thrown in there for good measure!
Would he play better if he had been custom fitted or if he had a £750 set of clubs? I very much doubt it. And he doesn't use GPS either!
Oh by the way, I had 38 points on Sunday with two birdies. Funny thing was, I thought I'd charged my GPS but it hadn't connected properly and when I turned it on on the first tee it said "battery low" so I didnt' use it. First time in a few weeks I've been without it and had my best score for a month or two!
:D
 
Snelly interesting post. Were you one of those annoying kids at school that was in the first team for everything and got grades as well? :D

You may well be right in terms of equipment/technology development not resulting in noticeable improvement but surely you have to agree that at it's very simple level custom fit can help those who were placed in a rack(tall)/vice (short) as a child in terms of length, lie angle etc...

I'm 6'4" an either hurt my back or top the ball using standard clubs. I also think having the right shaft helps. If you are using ten year old irons you obviously picked a very good set for you and weren't foolish so didn't change them.

That said you did save me from dropping a bomb on a fitted driver. So clearly you are absolutely right and everything typed above is utter nonsense. So long as I keep my eye on the ball the XLS is going very nicely! :D
 
I agree with a lot of what you say Snelly - wise words.

But some degree of custom fit surely takes place, even when you hit 10 balls with your Rapture or 10 balls with your hybrid. If the club didn't feel right, had the wrong shaft or didn't hit the ball on the trajectory that you wanted, then you wouldn't use it. So in effect you've - to a point - custom fitted yourself.

Also the premise that no custom fitting is useful, I think, is flawed. You, Sir, are blessed with natural ability with a club in your hands. By your own admission you don't practice much these days but still have the game to shoot par or better. I think you're looking at the custom fit scenario from your own perspective a bit too much. It wouldn't help you - I'm quite prepared to admit that. But it would help lesser players, who's swings don't allow them to get to the ball quite as cleanly as you. A more flexible shaft that helps get the ball in the air for a slower swinger - give Smiffy a driver with an Extra-Stiff shaft and the World would probably end!

Custom fitting is, I feel, the fine-tuning. Making sure you can get the best from your game. Yes, I agree, find some irons and stick with them - that has to be the best bet. But how do you get the right ones to start with? Give a player a standard 6 iron from manufacturer A - he may balloon the ball because of his swing or he may struggle to get the ball off the ground - put a shaft in the head that makes the flight correct and who is the winner? The manufacturer still makes a sale but the Golfer has a club he can use. Substitute a shaft or spend months on the range trying to find a swing that will get the ball in the air using a club that has the wrong shaft in it..?

As we all have different swings there has to be an element of Custom Fitting involved in the buying of kit. Even it's as simple as making sure you have R300 shafts instead of X100 - it's still custom fitting.

One last thing Snelly. Have you ever tried Custom Fitting? If not, how do you know that it won't help?

Still a lot of wise words though Mate!!:)
 
Congrats Snelly on the great round.

Although we have had this debate many times on here I do find it interesting and geninely have mixed views and pretty much agree with Imurg. I guess I'm in the "get fitted up to a point" camp but don't think full c/f will work miracles.

I believe that you do need to have something that is basically set up for you in terms of shaft flex, length and weight, lie, grip thickness and head design. However, I do have my doubts about how much any marginal benefits from the diffent ball flights that diffent shafts produce will impact on how a middle of the road handicapper scores. On the other hand the better the player, the easier it is for them to play with anything that's roughly right.

Nothing in my bag was c/fitted for me but it was all chosen to suit my game. I played great for a dozen years with an off the shelf set of TP21's recommended by my pro which I chose over T-Zoid Pro's after hitting lots of shots on the range. I do know that I hit my current MX25s with light weight regular shafts a lot better and futher than my MP30's with standard stiff shafts that I switched to after my TP21s. Age and illness caught up with me. I hit a few different demo clubs and had a session with the Mizuno DNA thing to get an idea of what was right for me then bought a second hand set with about the right specs. They had actually been custom fitted for someone else! Maybe a full c/f would find a better combination which would produce the goods in terms of launch monitor numbers but the question is how much that would affect my actual scoring. It wouldn't stop me pulling my tee shot on a par 3 20 yards left or duffing my chips, which are what really cost me shots.

Thing is golf is a complex game. There is so much more to putting a good round of golf together than whether you have the "right" clubs. They help but only up to a point.

Maybe Tiger's right Snelly, and you were lucky or wise enough to get a set that just happened to be bang on for you and very sensibly have stuck with them. Clearly you are a fine golfer and as Imurg says that makes a difference too.

May be GM could arrange a full c/f for you and see what it shows then let you play with them for a year and track your progress. Could also get a real c/f advocate to play with an off the shelf set as a parallel study. Might be fun.
 
I've always maintained that most players don't benefit from custom fitted clubs. Years ago before custom fit people bought off the shelf clubs and I'm pretty sure that in the last 30 years, the average handicap hasn't changed.

The only thing that I think is necessary is if you are very short or very tall, having the shaft lengthened would help, apart from that, most people could find a set of clubs off the shelf that they liked and could play well with.

My irons were custom fitted in 2006 (or maybe 2005). Since then I have had a whole year of lessons which changed my swing dramatically yet I still have the same clubs and I've just had the best year of my life. I'm pretty sure if I got fitted again the setup of them would be different.

I'm convinced if I could go and choose a decent set of off the shelf irons and have the winter to get used to them I'd be no worse a player than I am now.
 
Its simple for me - if you think that you benefit from custom fit, you do benefit from it!

I changed this time last year from standard TM burners to Titleist AP2's that were c/f and I absolutely am hitting the ball better and more consistantly. I have also eradicated the shot that goes left and then left and that for me has seen regular better scoring. My sky caddie also works for me.

I guess we are all different

Good scoring Snelly



Chris
 
Snelly said:
The reason for posting this is that so many of the posts on this forum are about clubs. New clubs and the minutiae of specification detail; lie angle, loft, shaft, kick-point, smash something or other... Or how they should be fitted to your swing and so on... It is mostly irrelevant in my view. Get a decent set of clubs from a decent maker and stick with them. Play lots of golf and you will get better. Ignore the hype.
Click to expand...

Well I gave up golf in the middle of the biggest change from Persimmon woods to metal. Coming back to a hole new world of equipment and balls was quite daunting at first.

But, I put in some of the best scores of my life with all my old stuff, but I would never go back to using them, even if they were new.

It’s simple, a twin tub washing machine can clean the washing as good as the modern automatics, but we have the automatics. We don’t use rolls of film its digital, and TVs are thin and light not big and bulky. All pi$h eh but it’s called moving on.

Years ago caddies were still marking the yardage and a GPS does that for you. It doesn’t make you better or score those birdies, it’s just information.

The same goes with clubs, I’m short and I need my irons 2 degrees flat. I can use standard, but again this is not new technology. It’s just available for everyone these days. I know an old club maker and he’s been altering lie angles all his days, going back about 50 years.

Old worn grips…I’ll try that the next time…..not.

Oh what ball did you use? The reason I ask is I used a cheap ball a couple of years ago and a bogie on the last hole done me for a par round. Would I use that ball again, no, I just had one of those days.
 
Snelly said:
I don't decry any of you for going down the custom fitted route or going on a trackman or having lessons all the time. It is up to you, it is your money and all that.... However the point I have made before and am making again is that the latest equipment, technology and flavour of the month swing are all part of a massive marketing machine designed to convince golfers that the latest club is the greatest and will make all the difference. It won't. I would go as far as saying that for 95%+ of golfers, buying new equipment, whilst it may put a smile on your face (which is great by the way) won't make any difference to your handicap.
Click to expand...


Hmmm, I'm not sure your qualified to make that statement. As you have never been custom fitted in your life, how do you know it won't make any difference to your game? I'm not saying it will, but you will never know for sure. A good percentage of golf is what's going on between the ears, it's a positive game. If custom fitting gives the punter the belief that he's going to play better, he often will.

My latest set are off the shelf, and I play no worse than when I play with my custom fitted set, but that's just me. I wouldn't say custom fitting is not good for some.
 
Good post Snelly

Custom fit isnt going to make you great unless you were already very good and a slight tweak to make you more comfortable shaves a few strokes off.

I bought my Mizuno's years ago based on the Pro saying "I've a cancelled order here, fancy them at cost?" I had no idea, nor cared, what the shafts were, what the heads were made off, lofts lie etc etc and used these sticks to get as low as 2.7 (from 18).

Then I discovered custom fit, everything was worse, custom fitted again, bit better, again bit better, now a further custom fit still for irons and from custom fit 1 to custom fit 4 the shaft has gone from a 90gramme stiff to a 130gramme X stiff:eek:

If I'd just picked up what I liked the look of, hit a few balls, tried a couple more in comparison I bet I would have reached where I am within an hour instead of weeks of 'custom' fit:mad:

Custom definitly helps but as to how much is debatable
 
I do think it depends on the stature of the person. Very tall, or very short, long arms, short arms, swing speed etc. One club will not fit all. I'm lucky I went for custom fit pings(did not get them) and other than the shaft. My fitting was length -0.25" and half degree flat. Grip -1/64". So near enough to standard, so I could buy of the shelve. What ever took my fancy. Maybe the op is simular?
 
Slumming it at Singing Hills eh Snelly - thats about 2 mins from where I work and, although a nice course, not up to the standard you are used to - or have come to expect surely ;) BTW did you see the mazzive Wurlitzer organ....bizarre!!

I too am one that has never been custom fitted, but unfortunately do not beneifit from having the ability to knock the ball round in level par with no real practice and infrequent play. From my perspective, I have never held a burning desire to be C/F'd and believe that if you feel comfortable with a set of iron/driver etc then that should suffice - whether or not you may be losing 10% distance by not having the optimal shaft for your swing.

I play golf for relaxation and enjoyment and, whilst I understand why those that take it more seriously than I get themselves fitted, I simply do not have a consistent enough swing to make best use of that exercise.
At my standard, i believe it is not necessary.


Also, and I think this is the real reason, if I shelled out for a brand new singing/dancing C/F driver and still ended up duck hooking it into the bundu I might have to finally come to terms that I am poop. For me, ignorance is bliss.
 
The process of buying new gear is a pleasure.

C/F prolongs that process and for a few minutes, makes us feel like we are pros and that these fine adjustments are necessary to the superb players we temporarily believe ourselves to be.

I currently use off the shelf gear, but am looking for a new driver and 3-wood. I will have some element of CF, even if it's just going on a monitor in one of the major stores or at a range and trying out a few makes and models. The technology is there, so why why would I deliberately not use it?
 
Have never played with you before Snelly but let me guess:

Somewhere between 5ft9 and 6ft1, medium build, good ball striker with a decent tempo but dont go after it?
 
From that video Im guessing my prediction of Snelly isnt too far off the mark.

Compare that to 6ft 5, large build, high tempo and goes at it a lot, and you'll see why I have the complete opposite view to you on CF, especially for those at either end of the spectrum, where off the shelf fits them far worse than those in the middle.
 
having seen you hit a ball snelly its no wonder you didnt need a custom fit or the latest bats, your swing is a thing of beauty. but the question remains how did your game arrive at the stage it is at?

Long hours on the range with lessons
Home teaching from a food family member
 
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