3 minutes to find ball

[robinthehood]

And how do you know this, in the scenario above...?

As long as people make an effort I am happy. It's listening to the whiny posts about not having a watch so it doesn't really matter, or ridiculous posts about let's all get our stopwatches out I find a little irritating.
Pretty much everyone I play social golf with gives up pretty quickly, chucks another ball down and carrys on from there anyway.

 

[Imurg]

Just guess and get on with it, and then go on a rules forum a claim that it's too much to expect anyone to bother whether adherence to the rule really matters?

This is my point, Chris.
If the rules specify a time limit they need to specify a means of measuring that time limit.
The rules are full of specific numbers or measurements. Most of them are measured for us. Hole size, ball size, etc But some aren't A club length is an obvious one. Fortunately we all carry at least one club so we are able to measure that distance. We all have knees... artificial or otherwise.
But if the rules don't require us to carry a timing device how are we meant to measure 3 minutes - even though common sense says we should carry one.

 

[chrisd]

This is my point, Chris.
If the rules specify a time limit they need to specify a means of measuring that time limit.
The rules are full of specific numbers or measurements. Most of them are measured for us. Hole size, ball size, etc But some aren't A club length is an obvious one. Fortunately we all carry at least one club so we are able to measure that distance. We all have knees... artificial or otherwise.
But if the rules don't require us to carry a timing device how are we meant to measure 3 minutes - even though common sense says we should carry one.

Dont the new rules state that a club length is your longest club in the bag but not your putter. I'd still say Ian that if a rule is measured in time then having the means to measure that time on the course is pretty necessary on the course in a comp, but of course players can get round it by never searching for their ball or being absolutely certain that any search is short enough of 3 minutes to be demonstrably within a time limit. I started posting here because people like Orikuru said in so many words that around 3 minutes is acceptable

 

[Imurg]

Dont the new rules state that a club length is your longest club in the bag but not your putter. I'd still say Ian that if a rule is measured in time then having the means to measure that time on the course is pretty necessary on the course in a comp, but of course players can get round it by never searching for their ball or being absolutely certain that any search is short enough of 3 minutes to be demonstrably within a time limit. I started posting here because people like Orikuru said in so many words that around 3 minutes is acceptable

Ah, but you're assuming that the Super Power formally known as "Common Sense" is in operation.
Goes back to my comment about ball marking - if you don't "have" to do it, many won't ..even though it's daft to not do it.
Same principle with timing.

 

[chrisd]

Ah, but you're assuming that the Super Power formally known as "Common Sense" is in operation.
Goes back to my comment about ball marking - if you don't "have" to do it, many won't ..even though it's daft to not do it.
Same principle with timing.

But I know you well enough Ian to know that you'll do your utmost to play within the rules

 

[Slab]

But I know you well enough Ian to know that you'll do your utmost to play within the rules

With respect to both of you & in respect of the rules of golf, that post (if intended as serious) is far more ludicrous than anything Orikuru posted (& he's pretty well out there sometimes)

 

[chrisd]

With respect to both of you & in respect of the rules of golf, that post (if intended as serious) is far more ludicrous than anything Orikuru posted (& he's pretty well out there sometimes)

Please explain?

 

[Wolf]

As soon as you start making a case for not being able to play to the rules then I'd be staggered if you, and others on here who play fast and loose with the rule have never gone over the 3 minutes and you cant categorically state/know that you havent. You have the means to stick by the rules available to you but prefer to not to do so and when it's your ball and you play it at anytime after 3 minutes have elapsed then you have broken the rules. I would take the view that is unfair to the rest of the field in a competition if it happens, and given how simple it is to keep within the rule, I'd say it has to eventually become cheating. Pathetic, or not, you will play with people who, whether you know they've timed a search of yours, or not, will doubt your integrity if they see you going over the time, especially if it's a regular occurrence.

I posted earlier of a guy in my match who went way way over the 3 minutes, found his ball and played it, I will never play with him again without keeping an eye on his adherence to rules and especially this rule as my trust in him has now diminished.

I've never made a case to not play by the rules. That's your assumption based on the fact I'm merely questioning something, I've never claimed to be fast and loose with the rules again that's you making that claim because I'm capable of independent thought and merely asking questions.

I've stated many times I'm all for this rule and if someone were to put me on the clock I'd actually have no issue with it whatsoever.

I'll let the people I I have played with know they're all fast and loose and cheats as well which includes this year alone 3 PGA pro's, (1 of whom is head pro at a forumers club) 2 ex club captains, current captain and club president. Clearly all golfers are fast and lose by your description.

These rules were changed in the first place because people were intelligent enough to question their validity 🤔..

I will state once again for the record I'm not questioning the rule or even the validity of it as I said many times it's good change. I'm merely asking about the timing of it when the rules don't state it must be timed. I'm not breaking it nor any other rule.

But I know you well enough Ian to know that you'll do your utmost to play within the rules

I'm sorry but that's as ludicrous as calling me or anyone else cheats. Considering he's asking the same question in the same way about how to time it and how even that can be ambiguous. Also shows as long as its your mates you'll believe them but not others who do the same thing.

 

[Slab]

Please explain?

Quite simply that with respect to the rules of golf, one players knowledge of another is completely immaterial

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I find it hard to believe that in the 21st century most golfers don't have access to timer of some sort out on the course. A phone, GPS watch, a normal watch.....
No one's expecting you to do a grand prix style lights out start for a ball search but it really isn't a lot to expect people to make an effort to get this rule right.

To be honest I am not aware that any of our Saturday am roll-up/sweep/swindle actually time searches - we just estimate...and point out to the searcher when time's up - if he has not done so himself. But given this discussion I think I might actually start monitoring how long we actually take - and if players regularly exceed the 3mins raise it with the organisers. Bottom line is that the 3mins is a rule. And in golf - a rule's a rule whether we like it or not.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It's not that hard at all to believe really. I don't own a watch normal or GPS. I turn my phone off when playing golf to prevent unwanted distractions of calls or texts. My GPS I do have doesn't have time on it when in map mode. Thats just me as an example.

Use my dad as another doesn't wear a watch, doesn't use a mobile phone and uses a lazer for distances.

I get your point as general rule of thumb but it is perfectly possible and feasible to be on a golf course without a timer

This is me. But as I do carry my phone with me maybe I'll just check the time on it when a search starts.

 

[Wolf]

This is me. But as I do carry my phone with me maybe I'll just check the time on it when a search starts.

That kind of proves my point SILH, it's not unfathomable to not have a device to check the time or at least think to questions others integrity that you feel you need dig your phone out.

I will however based on this thread do the same as you, instead of turning it off I'll pop it on airplane mode. However as had been pointed out even checking the time on our phones isn't guaranteed because it doesn't display seconds so 4:45 to 4:48 could easily be as close to 4mins as it is to 2mins..

Could you imagine you did this but a PP has a stop watch you glance at phone at same time he starts stopwatch. So see the time on phone had advanced 3 mins, he says nope your 3mins 47secs. You've still inadvertently broken the rule even though you've timed yourself. That's all I've been getting at all along for clarity..

That's all I've been questioning all along but because of such I'm being labelled a cheat, or fast and loose with the rules. Which by the same token assumes you must be as well 🤔 its a huge leap to get there but apparently that's what we are.

 

[Orikoru]

That kind of proves my point SILH, it's not unfathomable to not have a device to check the time or at least think to questions others integrity that you feel you need dig your phone out.

I will however based on this thread do the same as you, instead of turning it off I'll pop it on airplane mode. However as had been pointed out even checking the time on our phones isn't guaranteed because it doesn't display seconds so 4:45 to 4:48 could easily be as close to 4mins as it is to 2mins..

Could you imagine you did this but a PP has a stop watch you glance at phone at same time he starts stopwatch. So see the time on phone had advanced 3 mins, he says nope your 3mins 47secs. You've still inadvertently broken the rule even though you've timed yourself. That's all I've been getting at all along for clarity..

That's all I've been questioning all along but because of such I'm being labelled a cheat, or fast and loose with the rules. Which by the same token assumes you must be as well 🤔 its a huge leap to get there but apparently that's what we are.

My phone is the same. Just says hours and minutes. So I may even glance at it and see that the minutes have advanced by 3 - could be 2 mins 15, could be 3 mins 45 - so we're back to approximating anyway. Even to set an actual stopwatch probably takes another 15 seconds, so you can't pinpoint exactly when the search began - so we're still approximating. It's just loads of extra faff for no ultimate gain.

 

[patricks148]

That kind of proves my point SILH, it's not unfathomable to not have a device to check the time or at least think to questions others integrity that you feel you need dig your phone out.

I will however based on this thread do the same as you, instead of turning it off I'll pop it on airplane mode. However as had been pointed out even checking the time on our phones isn't guaranteed because it doesn't display seconds so 4:45 to 4:48 could easily be as close to 4mins as it is to 2mins..

Could you imagine you did this but a PP has a stop watch you glance at phone at same time he starts stopwatch. So see the time on phone had advanced 3 mins, he says nope your 3mins 47secs. You've still inadvertently broken the rule even though you've timed yourself. That's all I've been getting at all along for clarity..

That's all I've been questioning all along but because of such I'm being labelled a cheat, or fast and loose with the rules. Which by the same token assumes you must be as well 🤔 its a huge leap to get there but apparently that's what we are.

Like you i don't wear a watch or even carry my phone onto the golf course most of the time. i do have the timer on my Trolley, but in reality i would only use that if i was playing a tie against one of the guys known for never giving up a ball to the wild. must mean i'm a cheat and fast a lose with the rules too ... but in saying that i don't lose many ball and the places i do i'm not bothering to look anyway

 

[Wolf]

My phone is the same. Just says hours and minutes. So I may even glance at it and see that the minutes have advanced by 3 - could be 2 mins 15, could be 3 mins 45 - so we're back to approximating anyway. Even to set an actual stopwatch probably takes another 15 seconds, so you can't pinpoint exactly when the search began - so we're still approximating. It's just loads of extra faff for no ultimate gain.

Cheat 😂

Like you i don't wear a watch or even carry my phone onto the golf course most of the time. i do have the timer on my Trolley, but in reality i would only use that if i was playing a tie against one of the guys known for never giving up a ball to the wild. must mean i'm a cheat and fast a lose with the rules too ... but in saying that i don't lose many ball and the places i do i'm not bothering to look anyway

Ah but what if your trolley isn't able. To go into the trees or thick bundu how do you know what the time says 😂 hang on lads let me run to my trolley to check time. Phew you check it 2:45 run back in its ok boys we got 15 seconds.... Oh wait.... 😂

Like you I don't lose many but the places on my course where I'm gonna need search the rough is knee deep, or it's OOB so not in the course anyway in so nitt gonna bother ill play a provisional and just move on. But seems that's fast and lose just like how went want our women 😂

 

[patricks148]

Cheat 😂


Ah but what if your trolley isn't able. To go into the trees or thick bundu how do you know what the time says 😂 hang on lads let me run to my trolley to check time. Phew you check it 2:45 run back in its ok boys we got 15 seconds.... Oh wait.... 😂

Like you I don't lose many but the places on my course where I'm gonna need search the rough is knee deep, or it's OOB so not in the course anyway in boy gonna bother ill play a provisional and just move on. But seems that's fast and lose just like how went want our women 😂

i do tend to take my trolley right up to where i think the ball is and as it a links course.. tree's don't really feature. it does flash, or it dd when it reached 5 mins which is now sort of defunct with the rule change. Interestingly i do regularly play with Two R&A Rules officials, one of which does the Open and the Am, he never wears a watch to play or has a phone so he must be a cheat and fast a lose with the rules too

 

[Wolf]

i do tend to take my trolley right up to where i think the ball is and as it a links course.. tree's don't really feature. it does flash, or it dd when it reached 5 mins which is now sort of defunct with the rule change. Interestingly i do regularly play with Two R&A Rules officials, one of which does the Open and the Am, he never wears a watch to play or has a phone so he must be a cheat and fast a lose with the rules too

Benefit of a links I guess. And that is fair enough but can you image doing that on a parkland where you can't take it with you..

Uh oh call the police we have a cheat in our midst

 

[chrisd]

My phone is the same. Just says hours and minutes. So I may even glance at it and see that the minutes have advanced by 3 - could be 2 mins 15, could be 3 mins 45 - so we're back to approximating anyway. Even to set an actual stopwatch probably takes another 15 seconds, so you can't pinpoint exactly when the search began - so we're still approximating. It's just loads of extra faff for no ultimate gain.

I have a fairly cheap android phone and the clock section also has a stopwatch. I looked in Play Store and there's any amount of stop watch apps to download so no excuse!

 

[Orikoru]

I have a fairly cheap android phone and the clock section also has a stopwatch. I looked in Play Store and there's any amount of stop watch apps to download so no excuse!

I've covered several times why I wouldn't bother with a stopwatch, one of them was in the very post you quoted, so I'm not saying it all again. Think we've been around in enough circles already.

 

[patricks148]

I've covered several times why I wouldn't bother with a stopwatch, one of them was in the very post you quoted, so I'm not saying it all again. Think we've been around in enough circles already.

you cheating Jeremy