2022 World Cup.

[Deleted member 21784]

Looks like Southgate is set to stay on as England manager.
Not too disappointed if he does tbh.
Lost euros in the final on penalties,got knocked out of World Cup by the current champions.
Fine margins ?‍

Thought lineker was spot on about it, saying not always the best team wins the cup, it's not a league .. nobody thinks pep should go because he doesn't win champ league

Spot on tbh, we go again for the next euros

 

[sunshine]

I saw him play for Hibs when even as a slow alcohol ravaged man he still did a few things that were absolutely beyond anyone else on the pitch.

It was Hibs. Controlling the ball was probably beyond everyone else on the pitch ?

 

[Pin-seeker]

Thought lineker was spot on about it, saying not always the best team wins the cup, it's not a league .. nobody thinks pep should go because he doesn't win champ league

Spot on tbh, we go again for the next euros

Or Klopp only winning 1 league title ?‍

 

[Tashyboy]

And Southgate staying has ruined my night, thats another next major comp wasted. Yet quarter, semis or losing finalist will be enough for some.

 

[Tashyboy]

I'm fortunate to have seen both Best and Messi play live . Whereas I think Messi is almost certainly the finest footballer ever there is little doubt in my mind that Best would have been a star in any era. I saw him both at his peak(admittedly I was pretty young) for Manchester Utd and later at Uni I saw him play for Hibs when even as a slow alcohol ravaged man he still did a few things that were absolutely beyond anyone else on the pitch.

I find comparison between players that Could or could not perform in a different era odd. Having seen Nedved, KDB, Ronaldo, George Weah, etc etc. one thing they had was touch and vision. They naturally made the game look very very easy. For me they could of played any time any place any where.
Who is the greatest player of all time. There ain’t enough popcorn in Mansfield for that one.

 

[Fade and Die]

Hilarious La ?
He’s been blackballed ??

What for? Can’t just be for dropping the C bomb into a post otherwise Stu would have been blackballed years ago. And that would suggest inconsistent moderating ?

 

[Pin-seeker]

What for? Can’t just be for dropping the C bomb into a post otherwise Stu would have been blackballed years ago. And that would suggest inconsistent moderating ?

Not sure mate.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

What for? Can’t just be for dropping the C bomb into a post otherwise Stu would have been blackballed years ago. And that would suggest inconsistent moderating ?

Enjoy your weeks break, merry xmas ???

 

[Dando]

It could still come home..
View attachment 45622

In this day and age all they need to do is identify as the winners

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

My lad watches a lot, I mean a LOT, of football…current and past times. He wants Messi to win the WC…not Argentina, as he reckons Messi is the GOAT, better than Pele, Maradona, Best et al - and still doing it for PSG - and so him winning the WC is what his contribution to football deserves. And he seems a nice guy ‘to boot’ ( as it were).

 

[Baldy Bouncer]

In this day and age all they need to do is identify as the winners

Brilliant!

 

[Swinglowandslow]

That’s making a big leap, saying that George Best would follow modern diet and training regime ?. It’s certainly possible and I agree with your line of thinking.

What I was doing was comparing players as we saw them. The Best I have seen from clips looks good against defenders from the 60s but not outstanding in the context of modern football.

I simply do not agree with this “myth” being put about that players are faster and better than those of yesteryear of whom we have been talking.
Are you telling me that defenders of the ilk of the present England back four are better than defenders in 70s and 80s? Moores, Keane, Charles, Edwards, Hunter. Etc
Stones looks like he is carrying what his name suggests. He basically stands around passing sideways and backwards, as do the others.
When they surge forward with the ball into a gap to push it forward to a player , it is hailed as a moment of genius (ok, a little hyperbole, but you get the message?).
Most can kick any use only with one foot. That so often determines where the ball is going to go when you see which way they are facing. If I can see that on TV, then so can the opposition players.
Overall, the distribution skills of the modern player are less than yesteryear’s, to the extent that Grealish is renowned for that skill, it being held to be a rare thing, and therefore so prized. (Not that Southgate uses it much!). But such players, using that skill, were not uncommon years ago.
Even if ( in a moment of self deception)it is conceded that today’s players are as good,
then the tactics are much much slower at the back. Good up front, I’ll agree.
Never seen such unproductive , back and sideways passing as there is now.
Numbingly boring, but worse , so risky.
How many times has such a tactic resulted in an expensive mistake , or in being forced in the end, to boot it up the field, as could have been more timely done in the first place.?

And the proof that I’m right? See how this tactic is abandoned when the team is short of time and is behind; when goal attempts are vital in the closing minutes.
Possession is important, but possession up front, attempting to score.
As we say in our golf putting. …”Never up, never in”

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I simply do not agree with this “myth” being put about that players are faster and better than those of yesteryear of whom we have been talking.
Are you telling me that defenders of the ilk of the present England back four are better than defenders in 70s and 80s? Moores, Keane, Charles, Edwards, Hunter. Etc
Stones looks like he is carrying what his name suggests. He basically stands around passing sideways and backwards, as do the others.
When they surge forward with the ball into a gap to push it forward to a player , it is hailed as a moment of genius (ok, a little hyperbole, but you get the message?).
Most can kick any use only with one foot. That so often determines where the ball is going to go when you see which way they are facing. If I can see that on TV, then so can the opposition players.
Overall, the distribution skills of the modern player are less than yesteryear’s, to the extent that Grealish is renowned for that skill, it being held to be a rare thing, and therefore so prized. (Not that Southgate uses it much!). But such players, using that skill, were not uncommon years ago.
Even if ( in a moment of self deception)it is conceded that today’s players are as good,
then the tactics are much much slower at the back. Good up front, I’ll agree.
Never seen such unproductive , back and sideways passing as there is now.
Numbingly boring, but worse , so risky.
How many times has such a tactic resulted in an expensive mistake , or in being forced in the end, to boot it up the field, as could have been more timely done in the first place.?

And the proof that I’m right? See hothis tactic is abandoned when the team is short of time and is behind; when goal attempts are vital in the closing minutes.
Possession is important, but possession up front, attempting to score.
As we say in our golf putting. …”Never up, never in”

Think you may have quite a bias view maybe ?‍

“Distribution skills less” - based on what exactly ? Some of the best passers of the ball have been in recent years - Alonso , Xavi , KDB , Iniesta , Gerrard , etc - the game has been littered with players with superb distribution

And then the centre backs - Maldini , VVD , Rio , Pique , Silva , Dias

Even full backs now - TAA , Robbo , Hakimi

it’s very key now for players to be far better on the ball and that also now includes Goalkeepers who need to be very good with the ball at their feet

I grew up watching football in the 80’s and the ball players stood out - Hoddle , Hansen , Molby - now those level of players are the standard and players need to be extra ordinary to stand out.

“Older” fans are fixated with the heavy metal type football that used to be seen in the First Division at the time - remind us all how the national team did through the 70’s and 80’s with all these apparent players with better distribution skills.

People in those eras didn’t watch foreign football beyond tournaments- the continent was littered with highly talent players
During the late 70’s Liverpool and Forest got players that played more possession based football and it’s no surprise they did well in Europe - even then in the 90’s when the Prem started it was still heavy metal football and it’s not surprise that teams struggled in Europe

It’s only as more foreign players arrived and foreign ideas and coaches and more possession based football and the teams start to become far better and successful in Europe

There will be the odd players through years who would have been successful in any era - it’s impossible to judge how successful because the game , pitches , fitness , pace etc changes through the years

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Think you may have quite a bias view maybe ?‍

“Distribution skills less” - based on what exactly ? Some of the best passers of the ball have been in recent years - Alonso , Xavi , KDB , Iniesta , Gerrard , etc - the game has been littered with players with superb distribution

And then the centre backs - Maldini , VVD , Rio , Pique , Silva , Dias

Even full backs now - TAA , Robbo , Hakimi

it’s very key now for players to be far better on the ball and that also now includes Goalkeepers who need to be very good with the ball at their feet

I grew up watching football in the 80’s and the ball players stood out - Hoddle , Hansen , Molby - now those level of players are the standard and players need to be extra ordinary to stand out.

“Older” fans are fixated with the heavy metal type football that used to be seen in the First Division at the time - remind us all how the national team did through the 70’s and 80’s with all these apparent players with better distribution skills.

People in those eras didn’t watch foreign football beyond tournaments- the continent was littered with highly talent players
During the late 70’s Liverpool and Forest got players that played more possession based football and it’s no surprise they did well in Europe - even then in the 90’s when the Prem started it was still heavy metal football and it’s not surprise that teams struggled in Europe

It’s only as more foreign players arrived and foreign ideas and coaches and more possession based football and the teams start to become far better and successful in Europe

There will be the odd players through years who would have been successful in any era - it’s impossible to judge how successful because the game , pitches , fitness , pace etc changes through the years

And you haven’t ????? But, no matter, all opinions are biased, aren’t they?

Hoddle and Hansen ordinary?..?

Goalkeepers needing to play with their feet. No, they don’t need. Too many times have goals resulted from mistakes. Ok, so all persons make mistakes , but when you analyse n what the goalkeepers are doing( with their feet, which to you is important), how vital is it. ? Why do something that can result maybe in an important mistake ,if what’s being done is not necessary, or not vital, or merely fashionable? What full back cannot do what you are wanting the goalie to do?

However, all academic. Southgateism is set to continue!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

And you haven’t ????? But, no matter, all opinions are biased, aren’t they?

Hoddle and Hansen ordinary?..?

Goalkeepers needing to play with their feet. No, they don’t need. Too many times have goals resulted from mistakes. Ok, so all persons make mistakes , but when you analyse n what the goalkeepers are doing( with their feet, which to you is important), how vital is it. ? Why do something that can result maybe in an important mistake ,if what’s being done is not necessary, or not vital, or merely fashionable? What full back cannot do what you are wanting the goalie to do?

However, all academic. Southgateism is set to continue!

When did someone call Hoddle or Hansen ordinary ?‍

Those type of players stood out in the 80’s because they are rare. Those type of players are no longer rare - all teams at the top level need players who are comfortable on the ball so teams have 20 players like Hoodle and Hansen now

and yes Goalkeepers at the top level need to be comfortable with the ball at their feet as well as all the other basic GK skills , it’s now starting to become a basic skill for them. Possession is key and being good on the ball is key to that

The top GKs right now are all good with their feet

Neuer
Allison
Ederson
Courtois

Even Pickford

 

[Doon frae Troon]

One team from Africa getting to the semis does not represent a shift in power. It will take way more than a decade for a team from one of those places to be top dog.

Good teams play possession based football for good reason. Lump it forward to the big lad up front might win the the odd game, but over a series of games it’s just not as effective.

Even within the so called possession based teams there are completely different styles. France and Spain play in a completely different way.

No one is talking about 'lump it football'.
Morocco were very good at close ball control whilst running at speed, generally in threes and fours. USA were also lively and played with fast attacking skills.
Rather like the Dutch style of a couple of decades ago.

Tippy Tappy football is certainly not entertaining, drives new fans away.
Go out and win should be the thinking before a game not make sure you don't lose.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

When did someone call Hoddle or Hansen ordinary ?‍

Those type of players stood out in the 80’s because they are rare. Those type of players are no longer rare - all teams at the top level need players who are comfortable on the ball so teams have 20 players like Hoodle and Hansen now

and yes Goalkeepers at the top level need to be comfortable with the ball at their feet as well as all the other basic GK skills , it’s now starting to become a basic skill for them. Possession is key and being good on the ball is key to that

The top GKs right now are all good with their feet

Neuer
Allison
Ederson
Courtois

Even Pickford

What’s your definition of Standard in the context you wrote it.?

- Hoddle , Hansen , Molby - now those level of players are the standard and players need to be extra ordinary to stand out.

To me that is saying that by todays ratings they are ordinary and players of today need to be better, or as you say extra ordinary.

As for goalies and feet, you have not addressed my point that they need not be “good” with their feet because they shouldn’t be in a tactic where they need to be. I.e. tippy tappy with backs in dangerous areas, in order to achieve what?

Anyway, I’ve made the point more than once , I don’t intend to go on in a me and you , me and you thread?. We’ve made our points. Lets not bore further.

 

[paddyc]

Matterface,Dixon and Mccoist on ITV.

BBC it is then!

 

[Piece]

George Best played in an era when defenders were generally slow ponderous choppers, their usual choice when faced with a fleet footed forward was to try and hack them down. Someone like Best could run rings around them. Please do not confuse 60s/70s defenders with modern day defenders!

You can develop physicality, you can build strength, you can improve fitness, you can improve diet. You can't improve talent.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

What’s your definition of Standard in the context you wrote it.?

- Hoddle , Hansen , Molby - now those level of players are the standard and players need to be extra ordinary to stand out.

To me that is saying that by todays ratings they are ordinary and players of today need to be better, or as you say extra ordinary.

Sorry but they would be. The pool of talent is much deeper than it used to be. It’s the same in most sports.

Golf, F1, Ice Hockey, Gymnastics etc. They evolve, understanding of technique and tactics improves. Fitness improves, coaching improves.

Jack had to beat fewer good players than Tiger. Tiger had to beat fewer top players than Rory does now.

Fangio had less competition than Lewis. Schumacher moved the game on. Lewis has taken it to another level again. Fangio would struggle to complete a sprint race if dropped into modern F1.

When my daughter was 10 she could perform gymnastics routines that won Olympic medals in the 50s.

I’m sure one day I’ll have strong prescription for rose tinted glasses.