20+ yards EXTRA on your drives GUARANTEED!!!!!!! (or your money back!!)

[JustOne]

Very interesting thread, but have just finished the autobiography of Gary Wostenholme ( the most successful Amateur for a long time ) who says one of the most common faults of the club golfer is that he doesn't stay down through the ball!
Now Gary isn't a long hitter but his record speaks for it'self. Wish I could hit it as far as he does.
There's more than one way to skin a cat.

You're talking about another thing there, it's called 'early extension' and it's when your butt moves towards the ball and you lose your spine angle... see 'HOMER' for reference

 

[JustOne]

Here's another video....




***
SPECIAL note: Luke Donald likes to re-cock his wrists very quickly after impact... it's just something he's always done. The comments about timing and squaring the clubface are somewhat unfair and yet somewhat true in his case as he does close the clubface a little after impact as part of his personal choice of release.... he actually has NO PROBLEM getting it to come into impact perfectly though and the ball is well gone before he starts 'rolling', despite the commentary from Mssr Kostis...
***

[video=youtube;-m5SJQajBsc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m5SJQajBsc[/video]

 

[Whereditgo]

That swing just looks better every time I see it!

Persevered with this at the weekend and while its impossible to gauge distance at the moment, going from frozen to super soft fairways and bitterly cold air temps, I am getting massive improvements in accuracy off the tee

I'm not convinced I'm getting the push up with the legs right yet, but am definitely getting the weight moving forward better.

 

[Bikky73]

The thing is everyone is different. I don't see why there's need for comment about open/closed club face or bad stance if time after time you can produce 300+ down the fairway (give or take a bit to each side, no-ones perfect)

The only comments should be, he's doing it. The coaches all say this won't work but he makes it work for him.

 

[Foxholer]

JO,

Can you explain how this 'power from the ground' push to the target fits with S&T, where the right leg tends to 'go along for the ride'.

BTW. That Power Rythm Timing vid guy is full of S hi T!

 

[Tiger]

I do this already but wasn't consciously aware of it. Am now worried that being consciously aware of it could impact on my recent improvement. If that happens JO you are in deep doo doo!!! :angry: :angry:

 

[JustOne]

JO,

Can you explain how this 'power from the ground' push to the target fits with S&T, where the right leg tends to 'go along for the ride'.

I wouldn't have thought you were remotely interested in S&T?


Anyhoo.... it's covered in pages 75-77 of the book

As you can see in this vid the hips push up on the downswing (when the shaft gets approx parallel to the ground) ie before impact. You can see him settle back into the gound during the follow through.

If you watch his right knee does it look like it's along for the ride?

[video=youtube;UfQ8UPJl9kE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfQ8UPJl9kE[/video]

BTW. That Power Rythm Timing vid guy is full of S hi T!

Ha! That's Shawn Clement one of the most popular instructors on the internet. I'm not overly for or against him, he has some good stuff and some crap stuff. I'm sure he's better liked than me

 

[JustOne]

I do this already but wasn't consciously aware of it. Am now worried that being consciously aware of it could impact on my recent improvement. If that happens JO you are in deep doo doo!!! :angry: :angry:

Tiger you've got so much going on already it would get lost with the other 6,978 swing thoughts :thup:

 

[Foxholer]

I wouldn't have thought you were remotely interested in S&T?


Anyhoo.... it's covered in pages 75-77 of the book

As you can see in this vid the hips push up on the downswing (when the shaft gets approx parallel to the ground) ie before impact. You can see him settle back into the gound during the follow through.

If you watch his right knee does it look like it's along for the ride?

I like to think I'm open minded, so am prepared to considered reasoned argument on most topics. It's the close-mined religious fervour of S&T-ers that sticks in my craw though.

I'm unconvinced on how much pushing up right leg is doing. Certainly, the heel comes off the ground. Side view would show better.

Also seems that the ball starts right and stays right - or goes even further right - too.

 

[sev112]

Right! I've read through this complete thread twice (yes I'm a little slow)...and I'm liking it:thup:

I think its something all good players do subconsciously and they probably call it 'clearing the hips' or 'rotating the hips together with the chest' etc etc

However, it's always been conveyed as hip rotation which assumes a level rotation in my mind which it clearly isn't according to all the pics and video evidence.

I get a sore lower left back when I practice, I resist the turn to build torque then try and rotate the hips out the way to create that centripedal force. The few pics I have of my swing shocked me as my hips didnt seem to be moving much at all on the downswing leading to pulls, fats, high push fades etc so that made me try harder on hip rotation leading to miss-timing and sore lower left back again- vicious circle

I really like the idea of a different swing thought rather than 'rotate', and to then just start it off then let it go.

I need a visual swingthought to try this out at the range, pushing up isn't doing it for me so need to think of something else.

Also I need to video my swing as that will show me when it works and I'll see and feel the difference hopefully- and so will my back.

Excellent inciteful post JO:thup::thup:...........and its not S&T:smirk:


P.S love to hear comments from Bob and Jason Dransfield on this observation

Instead of thinking "rotation", think "step from one foot to the other"; at top of backswing you have a bent left knee, and a straight right knee (you will have turned your hips circa 45 degrees to the right); in the downswing step from your right foot to your left foot straightening the left, and bending the right. You will find your hips are now 45 degrees to the left. This is hip rotation, and it comes from stepping only, not "turning" your upper body. The quicker you step, the quicker the hip rotation, and the faster the ball.

I am not sure the pro golfers are actually proactively pushing up - i believe that is a reaction/resistance to the massive downward force from the club swinging downwards.

P.S. Look at Laura Davies and John Daly - they are identical in their impact positions and both up on their toes, and have been for a couple of decades. Which is why i think that the position is a consequence rather than a deliberate pre-determined "move".

 

[guest100718]

The moves described at the start of the thread are just by products if a decent dynamic swing, not really positions you should be actually trying to get to. Its like all the WRX ers who bang on about forward shaft lean at impact. What you can take away is how much on the left side you can be at impact

 

[JustOne]

The moves described at the start of the thread are just by products if a decent dynamic swing, not really positions you should be actually trying to get to. Its like all the WRX ers who bang on about forward shaft lean at impact. What you can take away is how much on the left side you can be at impact

How are you getting on trying to stay more centered Paddy? Working out for you?

 

[JustOne]

I like to think I'm open minded, so am prepared to considered reasoned argument on most topics. It's the close-mined religious fervour of S&T-ers that sticks in my craw though.

I'm unconvinced on how much pushing up right leg is doing. Certainly, the heel comes off the ground. Side view would show better.

Also seems that the ball starts right and stays right - or goes even further right - too.

I'm VERY open minded.... in essence that's why I got into the whole S&T thing in the first place. I find I have to defend it more than I'd like because generally some numpty 16h/capper comes along and says "oh yeh, stack and tilt - that's crap" and then the blinkers come on for everyone, despite the fact that he can't hit a decent ball or get a decent h/cap with the swing he's already using

In terms of the ballflight.. why wouldn't it? Do you know the shot he was trying to play???????

[let's TRY and keep off the topic of S&T here... please.... this is about extension... it should happen with all types of swings]

 

[Tommo21]

I got an extra 20 yards on the range last night.........I picked up the wrong club.

 

[Imurg]

I'm going to get an extra 50 yards this morning...........

 

[guest100718]

How are you getting on trying to stay more centered Paddy? Working out for you?

Yes making a huge difference Still feels a bit odd, like I am going to reverse pivot, but thats just years of swaying.

And you are AKA?

 

[JustOne]

Yes making a huge difference Still feels a bit odd, like I am going to reverse pivot, but thats just years of swaying.

And you are AKA?

I'm not a member on golfmagic (nothing against the place, just haven't joined, did play with Pasty once, nice fella), I just happened to catch the thread that said we're all tossers here on golf monthly and then looked at a couple of posters there.

Thought Bobmacs post was a bit off saying that it's OK here as he's allowed to flog the v-easy (considering how many supporters he has here) but I digress...

If you are making more solid contact by staying centered then that's great news, of course it is, however by staying centered you have given up the extra bit of power you got by swaying your weight.... and that's where most people have an issue with staying over the ball, they don't know how to hit it far enough from a 'standing start'. Extension as described in this thread is one of those things that will help you to power your swing, it isn't a by product of just turning. Did you watch the Donald/Kostis video above?

 

[Foxholer]

I'm VERY open minded.... in essence that's why I got into the whole S&T thing in the first place. I find I have to defend it more than I'd like because generally some numpty 16h/capper comes along and says "oh yeh, stack and tilt - that's crap" and then the blinkers come on for everyone, despite the fact that he can't hit a decent ball or get a decent h/cap with the swing he's already using

In terms of the ballflight.. why wouldn't it? Do you know the shot he was trying to play???????

[let's TRY and keep off the topic of S&T here... please.... this is about extension... it should happen with all types of swings]

Reason I asked about S&T was my impression that the 'staying centred' approach reduces the amount of forward momentum, compared with the 'weight transfer' approach, that can be gained 'from the ground' that you are proposing. The 20yds equates to about 7mph extra swing speed (at optimum smash factor). I don't believe that can be gained by movement to the target while staying centred. It surely must be by increased hip turn speed which multiplies (not sure of the factor) into the increased swing speed. It's hip turn speed that feels to be increased for me when I 'drive from the ground'.

And the write-off-ers get in my craw as well - for their similar closed-mindedness!

My comment re ballflight was merely a comment. Like you, I have no idea what shot he was trying to play. However, the flight definitely seemed to be heading right. It could well be that that this was not what was wanted and that the cause was the (too much) leg work! So not a valid example vid to me.

 

[JustOne]

Reason I asked about S&T was my impression that the 'staying centred' approach reduces the amount of forward momentum, compared with the 'weight transfer' approach, that can be gained 'from the ground' that you are proposing. The 20yds equates to about 7mph extra swing speed (at optimum smash factor). I don't believe that can be gained by movement to the target while staying centred. It surely must be by increased hip turn speed which multiplies (not sure of the factor) into the increased swing speed. It's hip turn speed that feels to be increased for me when I 'drive from the ground'.

I agree that the hip turn speed is increased as it's simply not possible to 'pull' your hips fast enough. However there is also an extension which increases the centripetal force (pulling up) and causes clubhead acceleration and another force called parametric accelleration (pivot moving in the opposite direction to the mass) which also increases, and in itself can add up to 6.7% increase in clubhead speed!!... apparently.

I did read some stuff lately (but didn't bookmark it) pertaining to just how much weighshift contributes to clubhead speed and also rotation (I think that rotation was only 15% of the total swing). I would assume that if you have a swing that doesn't employ all of the potential power moves then you are not going to be a big hitter, if you already use one or more then you should (I use the word loosely) be able to hit it further and if you use them all to the maximum then you should be a long hitter. If parametric acceleration accounts for up to 6.7% then I'd imagine extension would contribute at least the same if not more (there's your 7mph) as it's employing the big muscles.. so that's 13% more speed right there.... add in the correct weightshift, the faster hip rotation, more lag potential (also from the extension) as well as hitting down (less loft) and all the small parts begin to add up.

The premise of S&T is to hit the ball more consistently with distance and accuracy (it's supposed to be the same for all centered swings as there's less movement off the ball).... however, if it's 100% maximum distance you are after then take a run up! I think the 'Happy Gilmore' showed that you can hit the ball the furthest with the least accuracy

I don't know if that helps or not?



Good vid here for centered swings...


[video=youtube;9CykPtPcNp4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CykPtPcNp4[/video]

 

[Foxholer]

Good vid here for centered swings...

Rock is obviously happy to give up the 20 yards then - as the right leg is very passive (stable) and his belt buckle does not rise until after impact!

I reckon there's a vid out there to support any theory - and plenty of gobble-dee-gook descriptions to allow shysters to sell their approaches to hopeful hackers.

How's the practice regime - to get to scratch - going btw? I'm afraid my inability to trust my, now healed, broken ankle means I'm heading the other direction!