ArnoldArmChewer
Tour Winner
Ok, I have played out of the bunker but worry it could have gone OOB, want to play a provisional from the bunker, question is can I rake the bunker before playing the provisional shot ?
2 shots from bunker
- Thread starter ArnoldArmChewer
- Start date
MashieNiblick
Tour Winner
Good question which got me scratching my head and searching the Rules.
Here's what I found -seems to be just the thing.
Rule 13-4 covers prohibited actions when your ball is in a hazard.
Decision 13-4/37 Ball Played from Bunker Is Out of Bounds or Lost; Player Tests Condition of Bunker or Smooths Footprints Before Dropping Another Ball in Bunker, says
"Q. A player plays from a bunker and his ball comes to rest out of bounds or is lost. He smooths his footprints in the bunker at the place where he must drop a ball under Rule 27-1 or, before dropping a ball under Rule 27-1, he takes a few practice swings touching the sand in the bunker. Is the player in breach of Rule 13-4?
"A. player's ball is in the hazard or when it has been lifted from a hazard and may be dropped or placed in the hazard. In this case, the player's ball has been played from the hazard rather than lifted.
Furthermore, Exception 2 under Rule 13-4 allows a player, after playing his ball out of a hazard, to smooth sand or soil in the hazard without restriction. This right overrides any conflicting provisions in other Rules, including Rule 13-2."
So yes, you can smooth the sand and even take a practice swing before dropping your ball.
To be honest that's not what I expected as generally under Rule 13-2 you can't improve the area of intended stance or swing, which includes an area in which you are going to drop a ball, by creating or eliminating irregularities of
surface.
On the other hand suppose hit your ball towards the OOB but thought it was still in bounds.If you raked the bunker as a considerate player should then found out your ball was OOB (or indeed couldn't find it) when you went over to play it, it would be a tad harsh to penalise you for having done that.
So there you go. Learned something new.
Here's what I found -seems to be just the thing.
Rule 13-4 covers prohibited actions when your ball is in a hazard.
Decision 13-4/37 Ball Played from Bunker Is Out of Bounds or Lost; Player Tests Condition of Bunker or Smooths Footprints Before Dropping Another Ball in Bunker, says
"Q. A player plays from a bunker and his ball comes to rest out of bounds or is lost. He smooths his footprints in the bunker at the place where he must drop a ball under Rule 27-1 or, before dropping a ball under Rule 27-1, he takes a few practice swings touching the sand in the bunker. Is the player in breach of Rule 13-4?
"A. player's ball is in the hazard or when it has been lifted from a hazard and may be dropped or placed in the hazard. In this case, the player's ball has been played from the hazard rather than lifted.
Furthermore, Exception 2 under Rule 13-4 allows a player, after playing his ball out of a hazard, to smooth sand or soil in the hazard without restriction. This right overrides any conflicting provisions in other Rules, including Rule 13-2."
So yes, you can smooth the sand and even take a practice swing before dropping your ball.
To be honest that's not what I expected as generally under Rule 13-2 you can't improve the area of intended stance or swing, which includes an area in which you are going to drop a ball, by creating or eliminating irregularities of
surface.
On the other hand suppose hit your ball towards the OOB but thought it was still in bounds.If you raked the bunker as a considerate player should then found out your ball was OOB (or indeed couldn't find it) when you went over to play it, it would be a tad harsh to penalise you for having done that.
So there you go. Learned something new.
MashieNiblick
Tour Winner
Sorry just noticed that you were thinking of playing a provisional rather than knowing the ball was OOB or lost. Would imagine the same applied but going to have another look.
MashieNiblick
Tour Winner
Can't find anything else under either Rule 13 or Rule 27 that seems to cover playing a provo from a bunker so would imagine it is the same, as the ball is outside the bunker and wasn't lifted so the exception to Rule 13-4 referred to would still seem to apply.
Hopefully Colin, Duncan, Rosecott or others can assist though.
Hopefully Colin, Duncan, Rosecott or others can assist though.
Colin L
Tour Winner
There is no restriction on raking a bunker when the ball you played from it has finished up outside the bunker - no matter where it ends up (including when having played backwards or had a deflection, the bunker ends up on the line of play for your next stroke*).
See Note 2 of the Exceptions to Rule 13-4.
If a ball played from a hazard is outside the hazard after the stroke, the player may smooth sand or soil in the hazard without restriction.
The provisional ball is simply the stroke the player would come back to play if his ball did turn out to be OOB, played provisionally to save time. Decision 13-4/37 applies just the same.
(You may not rake the bunker if you have lifted a ball (eg unplayable ball/ GUR relief) from the bunker and have to drop it in the bunker, but that's not the issue here)
*Decision 13-4/37.5) is the reference for that:
http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-13/#d13-4-37.5
See Note 2 of the Exceptions to Rule 13-4.
If a ball played from a hazard is outside the hazard after the stroke, the player may smooth sand or soil in the hazard without restriction.
The provisional ball is simply the stroke the player would come back to play if his ball did turn out to be OOB, played provisionally to save time. Decision 13-4/37 applies just the same.
(You may not rake the bunker if you have lifted a ball (eg unplayable ball/ GUR relief) from the bunker and have to drop it in the bunker, but that's not the issue here)
*Decision 13-4/37.5) is the reference for that:
http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-13/#d13-4-37.5
Lump
Tour Winner
I love this place sometimes. You always learn something new.
Curls
Journeyman Pro
Funny if this had happened to me and lets say I was in a plugged lie I would have probably recreated the lie to play my provisional, but the rules allow you to have an improvement on your first lie, so that's great to know. Thanks all, good question (and answers!).
ArnoldArmChewer
Tour Winner
Brilliant thank you, our discussion on course on Sunday mirrored your 2nd last paragraph, ie if you raked the bunker and then found that you had gone OOB there would not be a penalty. we didnt realise you could take a practice swing tho' (2nd time around).
Thanks for digging that answer out.
AAC
Thanks for digging that answer out.
AAC
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