14 1/2 clubs

[sev112]

Would you call a 2 shot penality if you found your 7 year old daughter's putter or 9 iron (with a training grip on it) in your bag while putting out on the first hole ?


I spotted them (luckily) while waiting on teh first tee, but thought it would make an argument just for the sake of it on here

The (spurious) attempt at a debate being that there is no way that either would sensibly be considered a golf club for an adult and hence might (controversially) not count as part of the 14 even if you were accidentally carrying them in a round

 

[G1BB0]

yeah but Garrigus uses a 9 year olds putter so therfor a legit club

 

[fundy]

I think the fact that Garrigus is using what is clearly a kids putter on the US tour would mean any club just has to count

 

[musselburghgolfclub]

if it still had all the legal parts on it yes it is illegal. Could of put it away before the comp started.

 

[fundy]

great minds gibbo .......

 

[RGDave]

The (spurious) attempt at a debate being that there is no way that either would sensibly be considered a golf club for an adult

There IS way, surely. My daughter has a PW from her set before the set she had now. It is v.v. short indeed.

I demonstrated how to chip a 20 yarder with it t'other day and knocked it 3-4 foot past for what would have been a single putt par.

I'd say that club could sensibly considered a club for the purposes of your argument. It's a golf club isn't it?

 

[chris661]

if it still had all the legal parts on it yes it is illegal. Could of put it away before the comp started.

I have read this three times and don't understand it.

 

[richart]

My memory is not great, but I am sure this happened years ago to a Pro, and he was penalised for 15 clubs. Think because it was a childs toy club, he didn't find it for some time. May have been in Bobs era.

 

[palindromicbob]

A club is still a club I'm afraid. Regardless of the fact it is tiny. Lucky you noticed it before the round. You can still carry it but must declare it out of play.

This 9 iron actually breaks 2 rules but only one penalty would apply (which ever is most severe usually).

If this was a basic breech of rule 4-4 (Max of 14 clubs)then 2 stroke penalty (max 4) or score adjustment (max 2) in matchplay regardless of the fact that it wasn't likely to have been used.

The "problems" begin because of the training grip. This renders the club non-conforming and therefore would incur a penalty regardless of the number of clubs in your bag.

If you made a stroke with it then you would be disqualified. If not used the penalty is 2 strokes per hole (max 4) or score adjustment of 1 hole to a max of 2 for matchplay. Rule 4-1

 

[fundy]

Do you mean Woosnam in the 2001 Open when leading going into day 4, he got to the 2nd tee to find that he had 2 drivers and hence 15 clubs in the bag?

 

[richart]

Do you mean Woosnam in the 2001 Open when leading going into day 4, he got to the 2nd tee to find that he had 2 drivers and hence 15 clubs in the bag?

No years before that, and it was a childs club that had fallen to the bottom of the bag. I know I am not going to be able to sleep tonight trying to remember who it was.

 

[CliveW]

From the R&A Website...

Q. A player starts a round with 15 clubs. He discovers his error at the 2nd tee after his opponent or a fellow-competitor has played but before he has played. Does the player incur the maximum penalty of (a) deduction of two holes in match play or (b) four strokes in stroke play?

A. No. Since the player has not started play of the 2nd hole, he incurs a penalty of (a) deduction of one hole in match play or (b) two strokes in stroke play.

 

[Bash]

A club is still a club I'm afraid. Regardless of the fact it is tiny.

Unless it's a chocolate biscuit. Surely that wouldn't count (lol)

 

[palindromicbob]

Never thought of that ^^^^
In that case I sometimes carry 16 clubs but this reduces due to consumption of 2 at the turn.

 

[JezzE]

My memory is not great, but I am sure this happened years ago to a Pro, and he was penalised for 15 clubs. Think because it was a childs toy club, he didn't find it for some time. May have been in Bobs era.

You are correct on this - I remember it as well but can't for the life of me remember who it was. Some time in the 90s I think...

 

[CMAC]

Wasn't it Nicklaus who had a child's club in his bag?

 

[JezzE]

Found it!

My memory had been telling me it was Philip Price, but it was actually another Philip, Philip Parkin in the 1992 Italian Open

Story of what happened linked in to a Woosie 2001 Open story here...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/in_depth/2001/the_open/1452645.stm

 

[CMAC]

I was half right, meaning I half remembered as I'm a half wit

 

[richart]

Found it!

My memory had been telling me it was Philip Price, but it was actually another Philip, Philip Parkin in the 1992 Italian Open

Story of what happened linked in to a Woosie 2001 Open story here...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/in_depth/2001/the_open/1452645.stm

Thanks for that it was driving me mad, and proves I was not making it up. I owe you a beer.

 

[palindromicbob]

Found it!

My memory had been telling me it was Philip Price, but it was actually another Philip, Philip Parkin in the 1992 Italian Open

Story of what happened linked in to a Woosie 2001 Open story here...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/in_depth/2001/the_open/1452645.stm

I wonder if this incident contributed to a change in the rules? Parkin would have received a 4 stroke penalty under current rules.

Disqualification would only have happened if he continued to carry the club after discovering it without declaring it out of play.