Yet another NHS thread

[Patster1969]

Out of interest does anyone know or care to hazard a guess if hypothetically the NHS ceased to be and we all had to go along the private healthcare route, is the proportion of our NI that currently goes to funding NHS anywhere near enough to cover a basic equivalent private healthcare policy? Guessing nowhere near?

Eg If you earn £40k gross on a normal hours job you pay NI of only £3,820 https://goodcalculators.com/tax-calculator/

I'm guessing of the £3,820 maybe a third goes to NHS currently with rest to unemployment and pensions and other areas so only say £1,270 on health, roughly £100/month for someone earning £40k/yr. NHS is very cheap to us all, maybe we should all be paying more?

Difficult one Max. If you look in the US, you can be paying almost a grand a month for a half decent scheme but the US is a slightly different situation.

Something that a few people have mentioned is resources. My dad is on his 2nd regime of chemo and the latest is a slow drip feed course which takes up to 4 hours a time. He has mentioned several times that while he is on there, 2 or 3 receptionists/nurses have stood around & chatted for a good portion of the time he is there. When you have other areas at breaking point, surely a better allocation of staff would be the way forward. There's a lot of politicians that have ideas of how it can be improved & how it would be better if they were in power - can they not get together with business people to come up with a plan of how this can be fixed? However, I would like Hunt removed, as he seems like a genuine muppet

 

[jim8flog]

What the government receives in all NI contributions (employer and employee) is roughly half the amount it spends on Health and pensions and what is spends on those two is roughly equal.

What it spends on Social welfare nearly matches the spending on the other two.

These three items account for more than half of all government spending.

It does not need much imagination to work out how much we would have to spend if we wanted to protect ourselves out of own pocket for those three.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Difficult one Max. If you look in the US, you can be paying almost a grand a month for a half decent scheme but the US is a slightly different situation.

Something that a few people have mentioned is resources. My dad is on his 2nd regime of chemo and the latest is a slow drip feed course which takes up to 4 hours a time. He has mentioned several times that while he is on there, 2 or 3 receptionists/nurses have stood around & chatted for a good portion of the time he is there. When you have other areas at breaking point, surely a better allocation of staff would be the way forward. There's a lot of politicians that have ideas of how it can be improved & how it would be better if they were in power - can they not get together with business people to come up with a plan of how this can be fixed? However, I would like Hunt removed, as he seems like a genuine muppet

Gerry Robinson did some superb programmes on bringing business practise into the NHS, and no it was not about cutting budgets. It was more about changing dinosaur practices, you know the "we have always done it this way" type of thing. Biggest difficulty was getting staff to accept and change what is ingrained. Each NHS area runs differently though so even when his ideas worked it is not rolled out. I know he found it immensely frustrating but what he did is very interesting to read about and see.

My mum, 78, takes "oldies" to hospital appointments as part of a volunteer scheme and spends a lot of time in hospital waiting rooms. She echoes your dads comments. Obese nurses standing around for hours chatting and eating biscuits around a ward reception desk is something she sees regularly. I appreciate some nurses have specialist skills, ICU springs to mind, but an element of mobility within a hospital should be viable amongst many wards. If one ward has pressure on a day then nurses should be taking from a lighter ward to even things around. Hospitals need to get more flexible and inventive on that front.

 

[SocketRocket]

What the government receives in all NI contributions (employer and employee) is roughly half the amount it spends on Health and pensions and what is spends on those two is roughly equal.

What it spends on Social welfare nearly matches the spending on the other two.

These three items account for more than half of all government spending.

It does not need much imagination to work out how much we would have to spend if we wanted to protect ourselves out of own pocket for those three.

We wouldn't be paying as much tax and NI also people in the NHS would be paying more into their own pensions.

 

[Kellfire]

If one ward has pressure on a day then nurses should be taking from a lighter ward to even things around. Hospitals need to get more flexible and inventive on that front.

Nurses may not look busy but they have a ratio of nurses that need to be on each ward. They can't just shift them around as easily as that.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Nurses may not look busy but they have a ratio of nurses that need to be on each ward. They can't just shift them around as easily as that.

If they are stood around doing nothing then why not for an hour or two? That is rigid thinking. Release the pressure points and then return back to the original ward.

Again, I get it on certain wards but there will be others with more flexibility possible.

 

[Kellfire]

If they are stood around doing nothing then why not for an hour or two?

I'm sure unofficially this does happen but they are expected to maintain quotas on wards.

 

[Tashyboy]

Nurses may not look busy but they have a ratio of nurses that need to be on each ward. They can't just shift them around as easily as that.

That is correct Kellfire, but very often is not met, which is why agency staff which costs an arm and a leg and Bank staff are employed. It is the very reason why Homer ( who will be along shortly ) is trawling the world looking for staff. Coz we are not training enough.

 

[jim8flog]

We wouldn't be paying as much tax and NI also people in the NHS would be paying more into their own pensions.

What would you do about all the people who do not earn enough to pay tax and those that are 'just surviving' and do not have any spare to put in to pensions.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

What would you do about all the people who do not earn enough to pay tax and those that are 'just surviving' and do not have any spare to put in to pensions.

How do you think people not working in the public sector get on now? This is a problem private sector workers have had for many years. The reality is you just have to set up your pension and get on with it. Something else in your spending has to give.

 

[DCB]

Not all public sector workers are in the "good" final/average salary pension schemes. Many were closed to new entrants some time ago. It's the annuity scheme schemes for many nowadays. Worth a lot less than the old "good" scheme 😠

 

[Lord Tyrion]

It had to change. They are just not viable, particularly with an increasingly ageing population. Who was going to pay these pensions now that more people are living for longer?

 

[clubchamp98]

Guess what, it's winter and there is a shortage of beds. Last winter, the same. Winter before, the same. Year before, year before etc etc. As Missis T has just said ( 36 yrs NHS ) Why is it a surprise. Ave just asked Missi T a question, "when the trusts paid millions over the odds to have these hospitals built, why did they not factor in say 3 extra dormant wards to use during the winter months". She said " er they did but ended up using them for the rest of the year". What am I missing? It has never affected me but why do we put up with this crap every year. Missis T mentioned she had to open one of these temp wards and was supplied with crap agency nurses and insisted on Bank nurses if she was to continue running said ward. How have we let this system/ NHS get to State year after year. Rant over.:sbox:

my dad has been in hospital , we waited five hours in a corridor before even seeing a doctor.
After a week he was told he was fit enough to leave but was on a list to go to a elderly home with specialised care.
He was in hospital for 10weeks
Ten weeks because there was no place he could go that had the care package.
Thats the problem there are so many people in hospital that should not be there.
He died in the ward from Hospital Aquired Pnumonia!
Thats what the death certificate said.
This must happen a lot but nothing seems to change year on year we hear the same excuses.

 

[jim8flog]

How do you think people not working in the public sector get on now? This is a problem private sector workers have had for many years. The reality is you just have to set up your pension and get on with it. Something else in your spending has to give.

There's the rub, with the current set up for selling financial services a financial adviser would simply not be allowed to sell a lot of people any sort of pension or insurance because they have to show that their client can afford it, if they sell regardless they can be liable to pay compensation to the client and a fine the financial regulator and the fines are quite severe.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Well that was a week from hell. Spent most of it trying to cover shifts with agency doctors as we opened up additional areas to try (and admittedly fail) with demand. Then did a shift overnight helping on reception and clerking. That was busy. It's hard, and will be hard going forward. The NHS in its current format is broken. The question is what to do. Do you simply scrap it and go for the US (and elsewhere) method of having health insurance. How do you fix it. The thing is, at the centre of it all is a really dedicated workforce (in the majority) who work really hard and are empathetic to patients and their needs.

Yes, I'd agree that there are too many tiers of middle management and that has to be the first thing to go. There is immense wastage of money and that needs addressing. There is too much red tape. We need to be able to get better deals on equipment and medicines. I know people will have horror stories and bad experiences and I know there are some poor doctors and nursing staff in there too but as I said at the beginning the problems have gone on too long (every government in the last 25 years are responsible) to suddenly reinvent a shining utopia of hope and a fully staffed service with the best equipment in safe infrastructures (how many hospitals are wasting money on buildung repairs?).

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Scotland seem to be managing OK.
........or perhaps our residents are a bit tougher.

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=2dd11b2958a203d897c6fb08d11b0278&oe=5AF71A54

 

[Hobbit]

Scotland seem to be managing OK.
........or perhaps our residents are a bit tougher.

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=2dd11b2958a203d897c6fb08d11b0278&oe=5AF71A54

You need to look at the stats across all depts. Scotland hasn’t met ‘whole’ hospital targets since July 2014. Three boards have hit the 90% target but not the rest. Grampian is one of the poorest performing in the UK at 66%........ maybe the residents are a bit more gullible if they believe all is rosy in NHS Scotland....

 

[DCB]

Scotland seem to be managing OK.
........or perhaps our residents are a bit tougher.

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=2dd11b2958a203d897c6fb08d11b0278&oe=5AF71A54

Don't believe all the spin, my 87yr old mother needed to be taken into hospital last Thursday, unfortunately no ambulances available early afternoon and by late afternoon hospitals in Lothian weren't taking in any new patients. Good support from GP to manage situation at home, but, when your GP says you need to be in hospital, and there are no beds it's a bit of a problem. All is not sweetness and light in our hospitals at the moment.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Grampian NHS A&E targets

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Oops......... just checking those figures.

Strange, cannot find any for that week.