Why don't clubs do much to keep current members?

[HomerJSimpson]

To be honest the demographic at my club is definitely shifting towards a younger (under 40) membership and there does seem to be a more modern air around the place both in terms of atitudes and dress codes (not wanting to open that can of worms again!).

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

For every club hopper there are dozens more that stay. Offering a discount to ALL members to stop just a few moving clubs is still financially not viable. The figures from earlier still stack well unless your saying that half of the club members are hopping between clubs.

Club Hoppers? - tarts! Let 'em hop.

How's about you can take up a reduced entry membership fee - but your are in effect taking like a 5 yr tracker. Your subsequent yrs renewal go up by the % as everyone else but you are starting from a lower starting point. But if you want out before your 5yrs is up then you have to pay an exit penalty. You could make the initial membership fee significantly less than the current annual membership subs - but you are tied in for 10yrs with exit fees (stepping downwards from hefty penalty fees at the start to much less towards the end of the period)

 

[Beezerk]

If someone wants to be a golf club membership 'tart' - (as in Credit Card tart) then so be it. Get cheap 1st yr golf - with no joining fee; 2nd yr more expensive - so they leave and join another club. I'm not at all for giving 'loyalty' discounts - that's baldocks. If a discount of 5% in your subs is essential for you to be able or willing to renew then something is wrong. Note that even at that the discount would for most clubs only offset the increase they would be applying - so you'd still be paying the same as last year - if not more if the general increase was >5%.

And I think the OP Topic - though maybe inadvertantly - hints at part of the problem. Why don't clubs do much to keep current members?

Thinking of member's clubs - the club is the members - so replace in the OP Topic Why don't members do much to keep current members?

The 5% thing was just a figure I pulled out of the air, I'm not suggesting for one moment that should definitely be the case.
As I've said, it's just an observation that on the face of it clubs don't seem to offer much in the way of incentives to retain current members.
Supply and demand I guess, clubs know players will pay to play at their club so no need to change owt.
Even just a free pitch mark repairer or something

 

[londonlewis]

I was discussing renewing my membership with a mate earlier and wondering why clubs don't do some kind of loyalty thing, like maybe 5% off per year if you stay with the club year after year.
My club doesn't do it but I'll renew regardless, just think it would be a nice carrot to dangle to keep members coming back.

Do any clubs do such a thing or similar, would be nice to hear what other clubs do to retain membership numbers.

I don't think golf clubs could run on this basis - financially it wouldn't work.
If you had membership at £1000 per year, it would then reduce to these figures each year; £950, £902, £857, £814, £773. For argument sake let's say the average golfer is a member for 6 years;
- the cost to the golf course is £704 per member that stays for 6 years

The next problem is that golfers that have been members for 25 years are now only paying £291 per year.
As a new member, would you begrudge paying over £700 more to use the exact same facilities and course just because you had only just joined?

The other issue is the fact that golf clubs (and other types of clubs like the RAC for example) are able to offer reduced rates to junior members because their older members are able to afford higher fees. Simply, your salary will increase year-on-year as you are promoted and due to typical pay rises as well as your financial burden being reduced (lower mortgage to repay and kids leaving home etc...). Economically, this type of incentive doesn't have a place here.

So you now need to decide what type of benefits keeps you to a club.
Is the course so good that you enjoy playing it?
Is the social scene the best part of your weekend?
Has your club arranged a great affiliate programme with other course that you can now play as part of your membership?
Is this the only club within a reasonable commute to your house?

It's a tough one as golf is expensive and sadly I don't fit into the category of small mortgage and no dependents (in fact I fit into the category of 'I bought my house 2 years ago and I have my first child on the way in 7 weeks), so I would love a benefit scheme that saw my annual subs reduce every year.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The 5% thing was just a figure I pulled out of the air, I'm not suggesting for one moment that should definitely be the case.
As I've said, it's just an observation that on the face of it clubs don't seem to offer much in the way of incentives to retain current members.
Supply and demand I guess, clubs know players will pay to play at their club so no need to change owt.
Even just a free pitch mark repairer or something

But a club is the members. If the members wants they club do something on retention then the members have to decide what it is they want to do. Yes committees - blah - but in a members club the members do have the utimate say. Don't leave it to 'the club' - it is up to the members to get off their apathetic backsides and come up with suggestions that they they members would be happy to see implemented. The club (members) can then do an impact assessment on the suggestions and provide that back to the members.

 

[Fish]

But a club is the members. If the members wants they club do something on retention then the members have to decide what it is they want to do. Yes committees - blah - but in a members club the members do have the utimate say. Don't leave it to 'the club' - it is up to the members to get off their apathetic backsides and come up with suggestions that they they members would be happy to see implemented. The club (members) can then do an impact assessment on the suggestions and provide that back to the members.

Its not that simple, you vote in a committee to make decisions on your behalf, just like in politics, once their in and tight, its pretty hard to challenge anything unless you call an EGM. Obviously you have your annual AGM but I've heard not good stories from these where you just get put down if you dare raise anything controversial. I admit I've not been myself but I don't disbelieve those views.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

But a club is the members. If the members wants they club do something on retention then the members have to decide what it is they want to do. Yes committees - blah - but in a members club the members do have the utimate say. Don't leave it to 'the club' - it is up to the members to get off their apathetic backsides and come up with suggestions that they they members would be happy to see implemented. The club (members) can then do an impact assessment on the suggestions and provide that back to the members.

At last!

The Voice of Reason.

I appreciate that it may be difficult for members of proprietary clubs to influence decisions but for those of us who are at members' clubs please heed the advice of SILH; get off your backsides and make your opinions heard, at the very least attend your AGM's and vote.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Its not that simple, you vote in a committee to make decisions on your behalf, just like in politics, once their in and tight, its pretty hard to challenge anything unless you call an EGM. Obviously you have your annual AGM but I've heard not good stories from these where you just get put down if you dare raise anything controversial. I admit I've not been myself but I don't disbelieve those views.

Sorry Robin but that will only be the case if you continue to not attend your club's AGM.

 

[GB72]

I am fully ready to be shot down on this one but one of the biggest issues in retaining members can be the members themselves. How many people have paid their money to join a new club to be effectively told 'Thank you very much, there is the golf course, enjoy'. In the absence of any official roll ups or drawn competitions, this makes it very difficult for a new member to integrate and feel accepted. A large majority of many memberships have been with the club for years, formed their own groups, play their own swindles and have no interest in trying to welcome a new member into their group. They are happy with the status quo and want to stick to it. This extends into the bar where established groups sit together with the occasional interaction between groups but few friendly shouts of 'come over and join us' to the new member. If you want to keep a new member, the club and members have to ensure that they feel welcome, always have a few people to play with and feel included on and off the course. I am happy to say that at my current club they have been more forward thinking in this regard and I signed up because of that. At my old club, it was not unusual to see lost looking new members patrolling the putting green looking for someone to play with at a weekend.
To my mind, clubs need to do more to mix up the membership to get people knowing each other (which my club is not so good at as some of the larger, long established groups would complain like hell) and make sure that every new member gets some help in integrating themselves into the club both on and off the course so that they are happy to stay in the long term.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I am fully ready to be shot down on this one but one of the biggest issues in retaining members can be the members themselves. How many people have paid their money to join a new club to be effectively told 'Thank you very much, there is the golf course, enjoy'. In the absence of any official roll ups or drawn competitions, this makes it very difficult for a new member to integrate and feel accepted. A large majority of many memberships have been with the club for years, formed their own groups, play their own swindles and have no interest in trying to welcome a new member into their group. They are happy with the status quo and want to stick to it. This extends into the bar where established groups sit together with the occasional interaction between groups but few friendly shouts of 'come over and join us' to the new member. If you want to keep a new member, the club and members have to ensure that they feel welcome, always have a few people to play with and feel included on and off the course. I am happy to say that at my current club they have been more forward thinking in this regard and I signed up because of that. At my old club, it was not unusual to see lost looking new members patrolling the putting green looking for someone to play with at a weekend.
To my mind, clubs need to do more to mix up the membership to get people knowing each other (which my club is not so good at as some of the larger, long established groups would complain like hell) and make sure that every new member gets some help in integrating themselves into the club both on and off the course so that they are happy to stay in the long term.

All this can be true - but like-minded members can change it. Any group of 3-4 members that turn up at regular time and show complete openness to any other member will attract other members to join in with them like bees to the honey - and before long that 3-4 will be a dozen.

That is what our place is about. We have about 6 regular roll-ups through the week. And they are all advertised in our monthly newsletter. What usually happens is that the Sec introduces a new member to the roll-up most suited to when the newbie wants to play. That shows to the member the general openness of the members to newbies and encourages them to roll-up at other times. This is not to say we don't have fixed groups - and shortly after joining I was rejected by one group - much to my astonishment. But I don't bother with them.

Truth is a new member only has to get over any reservations they may have and just ask - go on ther first tee into the clubhouse and ask. If someone on putting green or hanging about just ask if they are going out. A bit like asking a girl out - you don't ask her the 'sleep over' question first off That's all you have to say - no 'can I join you' because that is the difficult bit we worry about as we might get a knock back. The easy bit is just asking if they are going out - or just stand in middle of golfers in clubhouse who seem about to play and say 'I fancy a knock - anyone one short'

But on main point - a club does not organise roll-ups - the members do. And any member can initiate a roll-up if they want.

 

[williamalex1]

What SLH said , and if you see a 3 ball on the tee ask to join them, who wouldn't prefer a 4 ball than a 3, Don't be shy.:thup:

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I am fully ready to be shot down on this one but one of the biggest issues in retaining members can be the members themselves. How many people have paid their money to join a new club to be effectively told 'Thank you very much, there is the golf course, enjoy'. In the absence of any official roll ups or drawn competitions, this makes it very difficult for a new member to integrate and feel accepted. A large majority of many memberships have been with the club for years, formed their own groups, play their own swindles and have no interest in trying to welcome a new member into their group. They are happy with the status quo and want to stick to it. This extends into the bar where established groups sit together with the occasional interaction between groups but few friendly shouts of 'come over and join us' to the new member. If you want to keep a new member, the club and members have to ensure that they feel welcome, always have a few people to play with and feel included on and off the course. I am happy to say that at my current club they have been more forward thinking in this regard and I signed up because of that. At my old club, it was not unusual to see lost looking new members patrolling the putting green looking for someone to play with at a weekend.
To my mind, clubs need to do more to mix up the membership to get people knowing each other (which my club is not so good at as some of the larger, long established groups would complain like hell) and make sure that every new member gets some help in integrating themselves into the club both on and off the course so that they are happy to stay in the long term.

My club isn't perfect and there is plenty still to be done with the greens but one thing it has worked hard on is making sure new members are integrated into the club. They are giving details of roll ups during the week and at weekends and normally giving an introduction to someone that will show them the ropes and get them involved. They are told about club comps. getting handicap cards sorted and made to feel the club isn't just interested in their cash. As I say, plenty wrong, but they have this right.

If you really want t make a change you need to go to the AGM and make your points known. No other way for most members to get their voice heard

 

[williamalex1]

My club isn't perfect and there is plenty still to be done with the greens but one thing it has worked hard on is making sure new members are integrated into the club. They are giving details of roll ups during the week and at weekends and normally giving an introduction to someone that will show them the ropes and get them involved. They are told about club comps. getting handicap cards sorted and made to feel the club isn't just interested in their cash. As I say, plenty wrong, but they have this right.

If you really want t make a change you need to go to the AGM and make your points known. No other way for most members to get their voice heard

At a AGM they won't normally entertain anything that's not on the agenda , so best put a letter in before hand, with your proposals and your named seconder. That way they must discuss your proposal and vote on it.
Just make sure all your like minded pals turn up to vote for your proposal, because the opposition will be there in force. Best of luck:thup:

 

[didsbury_duffer]

Interesting discussion chaps. The main problems that golf now has are as follows:
1. The 20 somethings and 30 somethings do not want to join one golf club. Some cannot afford it, and most prefer to pay and play at a variety of courses from one week to the next. They are not bothered about weekly medals or stablefords at all. Their golf is social golf.
2. The R&A made a major mistake 10 to 15 years ago when they said the UK needed another 750 golf courses, and then 850 were built, most of which were private members clubs. What was required was a fewer number of municipal type courses to satisfy the pay and play fraternity mentioned above.
3. The day that some clubs did away with the joining fee was a sad day for club memberships, as it created the itinerant golfer who moves from club to club every year to save £50 or £100. You will find that those clubs that have retained the joining fee have, by and large, remained healthy.
4. Whoever instigated the '2 fore 1' package needs to be put up against a wall and shot. Overnight this created a nosedive in green fee rates that has increased the number of nomadic pay and play golfers, and has savaged green fee income at many clubs.

I suspect that many golf clubs will not be able to survive the next 5 years, and I would expect that the core membership at many clubs will continue to reduce until it reaches a break-even point of about 250 members (150 men, 50 ladies and 50 juniors/social). With these declining numbers, clubs are not, and will not be, in a position to afford loyalty bonuses to existing members. The finances I am afraid just do not stack up. The only hope for many clubs is to try and retain as many members as possible in other ways, to get as much income from societies and visitors, and to rent out the main lounge for as many parties, weddings, anniversaries and funerals as possible. Oh, and hopefully pick up 40 or 50 new members if a local club goes belly up.

 

[Hobbit]

The only hope for many clubs is to try and retain as many members as possible in other ways, to get as much income from societies and visitors, and to rent out the main lounge for as many parties, weddings, anniversaries and funerals as possible. Oh, and hopefully pick up 40 or 50 new members if a local club goes belly up.

Apologies for chopping your post. Isn't this what the OP was hinting at. That golf clubs find a way to incentivise members to stay. If clubs make staying more attractive than leaving, even if it is a £50 hike, surely members will stay. A quality course allied to fun ways to play, fun club nights...

 

[chrisd]

Interesting discussion chaps. The main problems that golf now has are as follows:
1. The 20 somethings and 30 somethings do not want to join one golf club. Some cannot afford it, and most prefer to pay and play at a variety of courses from one week to the next. They are not bothered about weekly medals or stablefords at all. Their golf is social golf.
2. The R&A made a major mistake 10 to 15 years ago when they said the UK needed another 750 golf courses, and then 850 were built, most of which were private members clubs. What was required was a fewer number of municipal type courses to satisfy the pay and play fraternity mentioned above.
3. The day that some clubs did away with the joining fee was a sad day for club memberships, as it created the itinerant golfer who moves from club to club every year to save £50 or £100. You will find that those clubs that have retained the joining fee have, by and large, remained healthy.
4. Whoever instigated the '2 fore 1' package needs to be put up against a wall and shot. Overnight this created a nosedive in green fee rates that has increased the number of nomadic pay and play golfers, and has savaged green fee income at many clubs.

I suspect that many golf clubs will not be able to survive the next 5 years, and I would expect that the core membership at many clubs will continue to reduce until it reaches a break-even point of about 250 members (150 men, 50 ladies and 50 juniors/social). With these declining numbers, clubs are not, and will not be, in a position to afford loyalty bonuses to existing members. The finances I am afraid just do not stack up. The only hope for many clubs is to try and retain as many members as possible in other ways, to get as much income from societies and visitors, and to rent out the main lounge for as many parties, weddings, anniversaries and funerals as possible. Oh, and hopefully pick up 40 or 50 new members if a local club goes belly up.

Sadly I think you are pretty well right.

I see lots of posts criticising committees for being too staid and not listening to members, I think those days have largely gone and most clubs would have set up membership recruitment sub committees these days. I don't see many join our place and then leave for another club and, over the last few years, the club has changed the way it plays the game as new members effectively bring different requirements with them.

To explain, on a Sunday morning for example, most of the golf was 4bbb, most people had regular partners and no one went off after 9.30 as, by then, the first out were coming to the turn. If anyone did, or were a two ball or heaven forbid, a lone player they were very quickly warned off and told to either be there earlier and play 4ball or come next time after 11.30 when the course was quieter. In the last few years this had to and did change as you couldn't have a greater influx of new members annually than ever before and then, after they join, lay the law down!

As for committees not listening to members, I think that is no longer true as the challenges facing clubs leads to tough times. The one problem I saw though as a committee member was the guy who wanted to turn the club back in time because he didn't like the changes that we made and also the persons who suggested changes but wouldn't accept it when told that we had tried their ideas before and they hadn't worked. New innovative ideas were always given proper consideration and committees, in my time, were always willing to suggest changes for the better. 10 years ago the were many rules and ways of working that the club couldn't allow today as they wouldn't recruit members if they did.

In the end, like any business, the fittest will survive

 

[Deleted member 17920]

2. The R&A made a major mistake 10 to 15 years ago when they said the UK needed another 750 golf courses, and then 850 were built, most of which were private members clubs.

Really interesting that, I can only speak from Lincolnshire but off the new courses built in the 80's and 90's none were members clubs, All was proprietary with one that I know off now becoming a members club after a buyout.

3. The day that some clubs did away with the joining fee was a sad day for club memberships, as it created the itinerant golfer who moves from club to club every year to save £50 or £100. You will find that those clubs that have retained the joining fee have, by and large, remained healthy.

Totally agree with that statement. No loyalty at all, some clubs in Lincolnshire are 100 members down due to people chopping and changing now as they can afford to have a year out and then come back in a years time, some then go to another club for 1 year then move on to the next club.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I must ask our secretary if we ask 'leavers' why they are doing so. If we don't we should. I'd like to know. Would make for interesting - maybe uncomfortable - reading for both committee and members. But would give clear insight into problems and pointers on what needs to be addressed.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Disagree with the 2for1 comment. Green fees are a major revenue stream and I'm sure clubs are grateful of any green fee money, especially if the golfers enjoy what they find and they offer repeat business

 

[londonlewis]

I must ask our secretary if we ask 'leavers' why they are doing so. If we don't we should. I'd like to know. Would make for interesting - maybe uncomfortable - reading for both committee and members. But would give clear insight into problems and pointers on what needs to be addressed.

This is imperative.
I'm currently reading 'Smart customers, stupid companies' and it talks a lot about data analysis of customer choices, it argues that businesses that don't understand why customers behave in the way they do will ultimately cease to exist.

I'm not a million miles away from Farnham golf club S.I.L.H, I may have to come down at some stage for a round on your course.