What's going to get us to leave the car.

[Bunkermagnet]

This only random possible thought. Change the age from which you can drive a car from 17 to 25 - unless you in a special class where driving is essential for your work and perhaps restricted to certain public services.

In this way many more young folk have to get used to using public transport or taxis - and hence the demand for public transport increases and it becomes more available and market forces being equal - cheaper. And if that age group get usefd to using public transport their need to own and use a car when they reach 25 reduces? Maybe...

Got to change the culture and expectations around driving - very difficult to change people already driving. Too many 16yr olds sit with their provisional licencing in expectation of being able to have a car when they are 17. And once they get used to having that car from 17 a mindset is established that is very difficult to change.

I would suggest you don’t have children close to late teenager/early 20’s, because if you did you would know that many lads around that age don’t learn to drive because of the total costs, and girls do learn because of personal safety and security.
Both my daughters (30 and 25) had more boyfriends who couldn’t drive than who could.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I would suggest you don’t have children close to late teenager/early 20’s, because if you did you would know that many lads around that age don’t learn to drive because of the total costs, and girls do learn because of personal safety and security.
Both my daughters (30 and 25) had more boyfriends who couldn’t drive than who could.

Yes I do and I know. My lad (aged 27) only past his test late last year - and only drives because he needs to for his work. He lives in Sheffield and has lived there for 7 yrs and so is used to using public transport.

And I only made the suggestion on the basis of breaking the expectation of having a car from the age of 17 - or early 20s - that many have - when much of the time they don't need one. I accept that my thought is a challenging one - and maybe it's one that I might not actually agree with - but girls can learn to drive at 16 and use a parents car. One of the issues is the volume of cars on the road. Do we really need families having four or more cars? Maybe multiple car ownership becomes quite highly taxed.

And my son? Truth is that he could do his job without a car - using public transport - but it would be very difficult and expensive. So for instance last night he was managing a concert in Boston Lincs. He's back home in Sheffield today and tomorrow travels to Harwich, then on Wednesday he's at Southwark Cathedral London, and Thursday Southampton- then back to Sheffield - leaving Southampton at about 11:30pm...Yes - all could be done by public transport (except Southampton to Sheffield at midnight). But he is only taking on this work because he can get to the venues using a car.

 

[Russ_D]

Star Trek style Transporters .
Other than that a better alternative to Electric cars. Yes, they are enviromentally friendly to drive but currently a pain to charge especially the those who love in old style terraced streets where you may not be able to park your car outside your house. Technology for electric cars has outpaced the infrastructure to support them.

Self charging Hybrids are a better option but I'd say bio fuels that are under development that can be used in existing cars. There is a company that is able to synthesis fuel from waste materials like plastic and food waste.

Hydrogen fuel cells. Buses in Icelancd currently run on it and although its still in its infancy I thinks its the way to go.
Still prefer the transporter though. Just think, set off for your round and arrive in the first tee ready to play! .

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Yes I do and I know. My lad (aged 27) only past his test late last year - and only drives because he needs to for his work. He lives in Sheffield and has lived there for 7 yrs and so is used to using public transport.

And I only made the suggestion on the basis of breaking the expectation of having a car from the age of 17 - or early 20s - that many have - when much of the time they don't need one. I accept that my thought is a challenging one - and maybe it's one that I might not actually agree with - but girls can learn to drive at 16 and use a parents car. One of the issues is the volume of cars on the road. Do we really need families having four or more cars? Maybe multiple car ownership becomes quite highly taxed.

And my son? Truth is that he could do his job without a car - using public transport - but it would be very difficult and expensive. So for instance last night he was managing a concert in Boston Lincs. He's back home in Sheffield today and tomorrow travels to Harwich, then on Wednesday he's at Southwark Cathedral London, and Thursday Southampton- then back to Sheffield - leaving Southampton at about 11:30pm...Yes - all could be done by public transport. But he is only taking on this work because he can get to the venues using a car.

Sorry but what?

Girls can not drive at 16 in there parents car

Girls can (like boys) apply for their provisional and have it by their 16th birthday and then learn to drive a moped or light quad bike not in a car on a UK road until your 17

Unless you have quoted someone back and I missed it

 

[SocketRocket]

Yes I do and I know. My lad (aged 27) only past his test late last year - and only drives because he needs to for his work. He lives in Sheffield and has lived there for 7 yrs and so is used to using public transport.

And I only made the suggestion on the basis of breaking the expectation of having a car from the age of 17 - or early 20s - that many have - when much of the time they don't need one. I accept that my thought is a challenging one - and maybe it's one that I might not actually agree with - but girls can learn to drive at 16 and use a parents car. One of the issues is the volume of cars on the road. Do we really need families having four or more cars? Maybe multiple car ownership becomes quite highly taxed.

Higher car tax is an unfair way of reducing cars on the road as it hits the lower paid the hardest. I think restricting people from driving in certain areas and making alternative methods more attractive is a better plan. We dont need to completely stop cars in towns but start by restricting access in some roads while opening them to pedestrians, cycles and public transport.
When in Germany I often drove to an out of town carpark and used the tram into the town centre.

 

[pool888]

Tesla already have a "Powerwall" battery that you can charge up from solar or from off peak electricity then time shift to peak times. The electric scooter would be great for people who commute alone, would use much less energy and less pollution and remove cars from the busy roads, our country does need to look into how to legislate to get these in use, maybe mandatory registration and insurance.

We have 1 child, the nearest city is 35 miles away a return trip bus fare is £46.25 and takes 1hr 30 mins, car is around £9.00 in fuel and 50 minutes.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Sorry but what?

Girls can not drive at 16 in there parents car

Girls can (like boys) apply for their provisional and have it by their 16th birthday and then learn to drive a moped or light quad bike not in a car on a UK road until your 17

Unless you have quoted someone back and I missed it

Yes I know - but many get their provisional licence and learn to drive - waiting to turn 17 when they can get a car and drive themselves. I was suggesting that many girls (and lads) could drive a parents car once they have passed their test. They don't need to own their own.

 

[patricks148]

pretty hard up here, esp if you need to go anywhere outside of town, buses are poor and limited as are Trains. the wife used to take the bus to SNH, until they changed the bus route, takes and hour and a half for a 10 min trip as it now goes the opposite way and goes all around the town first, she would have to walk into town to get it which is further than the old journey

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Higher car tax is an unfair way of reducing cars on the road as it hits the lower paid the hardest. I think restricting people from driving in certain areas and making alternative methods more attractive is a better plan. We dont need to completely stop cars in towns but start by restricting access in some roads while opening them to pedestrians, cycles and public transport.
When in Germany I often drove to an out of town carpark and used the tram into the town centre.

I was only thinking that - say - the first two cars are taxed normally and further cars are very highly taxed...but it was only a random thought given the question...I get the inequality...

So make it that youngsters can't drive until they are 25...again - that might be a starting point from which to work from rather than have it a strict thing.

I'm only thinking of how you break the expectation that many youngsters (not all) have of having a car to drive from the age of 17 into early 20s. Maybe put severe restrictions on naming multiple youngsters on parental car insurance. Just thoughts. And not actually or necessarily agreeing with them myself I can think of many issues - but in truth many of the issues that we come up with are simply functions of how and where we choose to live and work these days. They are real - but they are issues that in many instances we could get round if we 100% had to.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Tesla already have a "Powerwall" battery that you can charge up from solar or from off peak electricity then time shift to peak times. The electric scooter would be great for people who commute alone, would use much less energy and less pollution and remove cars from the busy roads, our country does need to look into how to legislate to get these in use, maybe mandatory registration and insurance.

We have 1 child, the nearest city is 35 miles away a return trip bus fare is £46.25 and takes 1hr 30 mins, car is around £9.00 in fuel and 50 minutes.

See where we live is perfect for us

We are on the district line so have a tube station within a 7 min walk

We also have a national rail station within a 15 mins bus ride

The wife uses the train to get to work.

I use one of the cars. (Want to replace with a leaf. Makes us more carbon neutral)

When she goes into town she uses the bus a lot . Sometimes drives depends what she needs

Shopping wise she walks with our 2 year old to the local Tesco and brings the shopping back under her buggy

I'd say that's pretty decent

She will message me lists for big shops and I'll do around my drives to and from work ..

The leaf idea hopefully will work for golf. However if it doesn't I'll take the petrol car and leave the wife the leaf .

My parents have both now passed 60, and their trying to do their bit. They get free travel at 60 round our way so they get buses to place..dad buses or bikes to work. Mum buses to work. They use their hybrids mostly to take our daughter out lol

I started the hybrid trend in my family. I had one then my dad. Mum and sister got them lol. Maybe my leaf will start and electric trend

 

[Wolf]

Yes I know - but many get their provisional licence and learn to drive - waiting to turn 17 when they can get a car and drive themselves. I was suggesting that many girls (and lads) could drive a parents car once they have passed their test. They don't need to own their own.

You cannot legally learn to drive a car until your 17 last time I checked, unless you get an enhanced rate of PiP

 

[Deleted member 21784]

pretty hard up here, esp if you need to go anywhere outside of town, buses are poor and limited as are Trains. the wife used to take the bus to SNH, until they changed the bus route, takes and hour and a half for a 10 min trip as it now goes the opposite way and goes all around the town first, she would have to walk into town to get it which is further than the old journey

Where are these 16 year olds learning? Round Mt way we do have a car drome you can pay £15 and drive your parents car at like any age

However can drive on a road? So where is everyone learning?

And why did you say girls then backtrack?

Going back to the point of your son who does all on train etc

Good for him

However many others can't

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You cannot legally learn to drive a car until your 17 last time I checked, unless you get an enhanced rate of PiP

OK - it's a long time since I sat my test. My thinking on the question posed is not so much about the exact age at which you learn to drive and then can take a car on the road - but the expectation of owning or having easy access to a car; then that of what you must have one for; and then what it is acceptable to use one for.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

You cannot legally learn to drive a car until your 17 last time I checked, unless you get an enhanced rate of PiP

Correct. My two have been through this recently and you can not get on the road in a car until you are 17. Bizarrely, a useless fact for you, you can drive a tractor on the road at 16! Not just on a farm, actually on the highways.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

...and I'll add. Because I don't drink, my daughter and her mates would go out clubbing and call a Hueber (anytime, anyplace - and free - that's me) to come and pick them up at unearthly hours - And that's OK.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

OK - it's a long time since I sat my test. My thinking on the question posed is not so much about the exact age at which you learn to drive and then can take a car on the road - but the expectation of owning or having easy access to a car; then that of what you must have one for; and then what it is acceptable to use one for.

I don't think many expect to own a car.. if anything young people lease them more anyways but that is by the by.

Insurance for the first year of driving is anything up to 5k these days so people are priced out of driving almost as it is.

A friend of mine didn't take her test until she was 25 rather than 17 as she just didn't see the need

My best mate was 21 when she first got a car. she had her license from 17 but didn't get a car until she was 21.. I remember because she was working local to her home... she walked to work. then they moved offices that was a 20 min drive.. one bus per day in each direction (Yorkshire) that was too late to get her to work and too early to get her home so I loaned her the money to buy a second hand car to get here to work

 

[drdel]

Society has evolved around ease of movement - trip density is so diverse 'public transport' won't solve people's travel needs. The car is essential for the least able to afford it. changes will hit the poorest families hardest. We will need to solve the issue of environmentally sustainable 'private' travel systems.

Meanwhile.

Don't get me wrong the Bill Gates foundation does some excellent work but! - He's now ordered a new boat at a monetary cost of $600m - the Environmental impact of construction is not stated. It will need a crew of 20 odd and room for 14 guests!

However, not to worry as everything is fine because it will be hydrogen powered by fuel cells!!

The sources of his supply of hydrogen are unknown so there's are diesel driven generator systems as 'back-up' !! He has previously chartered boats but wanted a new one.

Its his money but it is nice to know that some of us plebs in the real world are taking climate responsibility seriously.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I don't think many expect to own a car.. if anything young people lease them more anyways but that is by the by.

Insurance for the first year of driving is anything up to 5k these days so people are priced out of driving almost as it is.

A friend of mine didn't take her test until she was 25 rather than 17 as she just didn't see the need

My best mate was 21 when she first got a car. she had her license from 17 but didn't get a car until she was 21.. I remember because she was working local to her home... she walked to work. then they moved offices that was a 20 min drive.. one bus per day in each direction (Yorkshire) that was too late to get her to work and too early to get her home so I loaned her the money to buy a second hand car to get here to work

Any suggestions or thoughts I have made are simply in respect of somehow not getting car-use established as an essential part of an individual's life. Once car-use is established I am thinking that it is very hard to break - since many aspects of that person's life will be based upon have readily available car use. We have moved from a position where a car was a luxury (when my dad first got a car in 1963), then a bit of a luxury and status thing - to it being a day-2-day essential.

It may never now be possible for car-use to not be essential for some things - but how do we make car-use less essential for more things.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Society has evolved around ease of movement - trip density is so diverse 'public transport' won't solve people's travel needs. The car is essential for the least able to afford it. changes will hit the poorest families hardest. We will need to solve the issue of environmentally sustainable 'private' travel systems.

Meanwhile.

Don't get me wrong the Bill Gates foundation does some excellent work but! - He's now ordered a new boat at a monetary cost of $600m - the Environmental impact of construction is not stated. It will need a crew of 20 odd and room for 14 guests!

However, not to worry as everything is fine because it will be hydrogen powered by fuel cells!!

The sources of his supply of hydrogen are unknown so there's are diesel driven generator systems as 'back-up' !! He has previously chartered boats but wanted a new one.

Its his money but it is nice to know that some of us plebs in the real world are taking climate responsibility seriously.

don't worry. the rich (like emma Thompson) when she flew over to protest about climate change.. offset by planting some trees rather than change their lifes

 

[Wolf]

OK - it's a long time since I sat my test. My thinking on the question posed is not so much about the exact age at which you learn to drive and then can take a car on the road - but the expectation of owning or having easy access to a car; then that of what you must have one for; and then what it is acceptable to use one for.

Who deems what is acceptable use though. Not all 17 - 25 year old expect to own a car. Many people of that age need access to a car to get to work, its not as simple as restricting number of cars per household. We need a minimum of 2 cars in my house due to where we live, how far we are from nearest towns, work and absolute lack of public transport. If my oldest daughter lived with us that need would go up to 3 cars due to all the above, due to shift patterns being often opposite and fact myself, my wife and daughter all work in separate towns so no feasible way to give lifts.. This is a common theme in rural areas like ours, its not expectation its purely necessity. Under your idea of higher taxing that would simply put my daughter out of work and college, then what she becomes a drain on welfare.

What needs to happen is transport links need massively improving to allow better access to towns, city's etc., part of that needs to be more affordable as well. I'd love for us to be able to have less use of cars. Hopefully with Mrs Wolf progressing her change of career and mine by the end if the summer we will be in a position to lose one of our cars and next year when mines due for renewal change to a hybrid. These are small changes effectively but requires big lifestyle change to put into place unfortunately for us.