Were we in the wrong?

[mackenzie]

Hi guys. Played my home course with 3 guests yesterday. Have been ruminating on this ever since. On my course, one of the drives passes by the previous green - which is sheltered by a treeline on the right. My mate let rip with the big dog, and his shot faded into said trees, accompanied by loud shouts of FORE! As we passed by the ladies group on the way to our second shots, we apologised and one lady said "it just missed me and I didn't hear anything". Fair enough, we thought, we shouted and she didn't hear, we did our best.

Two holes later, we were putting out on a short Par 4. The ladies were waiting on the fairway and not too subtle in their impatience. We were not unreasonably slow on the green. As we were about to move off one of our four was struck in the leg by the approach shot of one of the ladies. She raised her hand.

We crossed paths with them later and not a word of apology was uttered - in fact the atmosphere was very tense!

What I'd like to know is - were they in the wrong? My mates had just come to play for the first time with me on the course where I have just joined this month as a new member. I have had my doubts about joining a golf club due to the various petty acts/attitudes that can be found at them. It was not much fun hearing my friends say, "that's why I wouldn't join a golf club, people like that...."

Is this just standard stuff at golf clubs? The women were abominably rude.

 

[HTL]

You were not in the wrong and it sounds like the women were being idiots.

I have also just joined a club and finding it difficult with the attitudes of other members. So many of the older members believe they own the course and just annoy me with the way they act and speak. And don't get me started with the way they mark their score cards on the green and take forever trying to work out the exact yardage before they fluff up another shot. GGGRRRR

 

[TonyN]

Absolutly not.

You showed DUE DILEGENCE in shouting Fore (could of shouted fore right but lets not be picky )

If they dont hear it, thats not your fault.

The fact that played onto a green you were on is well out of order. I certainly would have either tee up there ball (off the green of course) and shot it back and gave em a right ear bashing probably both.

Glad you didn't do this though but you should definitly speak to the pro about it.

 

[theeaglehunter]

This is uncalled for and I think a complaint is definitely worthwhile. Even if you drop in the whole 'the three guests were perspective members' line. I have clearly been more than fortunate in the first club I have joined- there is a huge elders section but they are all polite and courteous apart from the vary small minority who are pretty pompous. But on the whole everyone is great. Hopefully you won't have similar problems in the future.

 

[RGuk]

I'd drop it....these things happen all the time.
There's no doubt (given the evidence M'lud) that the Ladies are more guilty than you of bad etiquette. Drives go amiss all the time, shots to greens are never an excuse.

I played on my own on Wednesday and got stuck behind a 3 ball that went off 20 minutes before me. The 5th tee is next to the 4th green so I just sat and chewed grass until they'd teed off. Once out the way I hit my approach to 5 ft . I caught up with them at the 7th and they asked why I'd waited....suggesting I'd never have hit them....but it's irresponsible to hit if there is any chance.

Personally, despite be a stickler for these things, I tend to forgive almost everything.....complaining rarely goes down well. If they were making a statement with their actions, don't come down to their level.....dangerous play is not clever.....they surely made a mistake.

 

[medwayjon]

I know it may seem harsh but I think that generally, women golfers are the worst.

I have NEVER been allowed to play-through by a female without prompting severely.

I have also had ladies gossiping on the greens, having a drink, marking a card etc whilst we are trying to play.

I have also nearly had an injury in our group similar to your experience. At our club it is forbidden to tee off on the 11th until the 1st green is clear. Everybody knows this so there is no excuse but one tuesday, we were putting and a ladies 3-ball proceeded to drive off. The first hook skipped over the green without even a half-hearted shout. The 2nd lady then did the exact same thing, this time the ball was bound for my pals head until he dived to the deck. Again no shout. I remonstrated with these ladies and they said that they did nothing wrong and that that particular local rule is stupid!

Also, we have ladies day on a thursday where the tee is closed to all other players between 10 & 2. God forbid anyman who dares to tee-off at 9.45 or 2.15, I have heard many comments like "effing men trying to take over on OUR day"

To summarise, the ladies as a whole think that they ARE the club, that they own the course and sod anybody else.

There are a handful of ladies in the club who are fine and courteous members and it is a pleasure to stop and chat with them.

Apologies to the lady forum users who I am sure do not fall into the less desirable catergory, I am also sure that many men are just as bad if not worse.

 

[Cernunnos]

I know it may seem harsh but I think that generally, women golfers are the worst.

I have NEVER been allowed to play-through by a female without prompting severely.

I have also had ladies gossiping on the greens, having a drink, marking a card etc whilst we are trying to play.

I have also nearly had an injury in our group similar to your experience. At our club it is forbidden to tee off on the 11th until the 1st green is clear. Everybody knows this so there is no excuse but one tuesday, we were putting and a ladies 3-ball proceeded to drive off. The first hook skipped over the green without even a half-hearted shout. The 2nd lady then did the exact same thing, this time the ball was bound for my pals head until he dived to the deck. Again no shout. I remonstrated with these ladies and they said that they did nothing wrong and that that particular local rule is stupid!

Also, we have ladies day on a thursday where the tee is closed to all other players between 10 & 2. God forbid anyman who dares to tee-off at 9.45 or 2.15, I have heard many comments like "effing men trying to take over on OUR day"

To summarise, the ladies as a whole think that they ARE the club, that they own the course and sod anybody else.

There are a handful of ladies in the club who are fine and courteous members and it is a pleasure to stop and chat with them.

Apologies to the lady forum users who I am sure do not fall into the less desirable catergory, I am also sure that many men are just as bad if not worse.

Virtually everything you mention about the lady golfers at yours, I could say about the seniors who play at the course I was a member of the last few seasons. They thought the club was runs entirely for their benefit. They would stand on or next to a green chatting & marking cards, without even thinking about moving away so the next group, pair or single could play up. Yet they'd be the first to complain about anything, especially having had the pleasure or misspleasure to having had to accompany them on a monthy medal or stableford match.

Oh & where I was playing this week with my partner, there was this old boy dressed like he was some sort of Yorkshire cricket umpire with his naff white flat cap insited on pelting balls down the fairway past my missus as she was about to take a swing herself on several occasions, this is all on a course where it was all stacked up & we were having to wait on every tee box ourselves & wait for greens to clear ourselves. To the point my other half was a nervous & very annoyed wreck & stopped playing before the turn. Did we return the favor when we let this couple through, no we didn't though I must admit the thought about dropping one or two Taylor Made Tp burners on the obnoxious old boys heals did cross my mind. However I have ettikete & so didn't. Though I did get my own back in my own way as I made an almighty cough as he was about to to take a shot into a green we'd cleared. He got the message by the stares we exchanged what I thought of him.

 

[barb]

Hi mackenzie,
I wholeheartedly agree with the other comments that you were by no means in the wrong and there is no excuse for playing your shot onto the green while there are other players still putting, these women are wrong, plain and simple and if they were members of my club then I would certainly be having a word.
As for

Is this just standard stuff at golf clubs? The women were abominably rude

I know we certainly don't have that at our club and I'm yet to experience it at other clubs, I think generally there are a small minority of women and men who think they are above this sort of behaviour because they are members and because of them the majority get labelled or tarnished with the same brush.
I am sorry for your bad experience and hope that it hasn't put you off being a member of a club.
Happy golfing

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I think we need to add juniors into the mix. We have several groups who will not let anyone through despite playing like a red arrows formation (walking off the tee box and then peeling off in all directions) and knowing we were waiting on the tee. We have some that know they can reach some of the longer (430+ par 4's and the par 5's) in two and insist on waiting until you have putted but have yet to fully get clear of the green. A number have tried telling this to the junior organiser but he insists he hasn't seen anyone acting poorly and that maybe we are in the wrong (as if we'd go the trouble)

 

[medwayjon]

I just wont play behind juniors, at my club they all have to take 27 practise swings per every single shot, are constantly marking their balls & plumb bombing on the greens even for a 2in putt and always spend far too much time gossiping on the tees before playing.

Most of them (maybe not at other clubs) are spoilt little shites with appalling manners and etiquette, they have rich parents who buy them the finest of everything, spend fortunes on lessons and are all going to be "the next big thing".

We have one in particular who is 17 and playing off 19. He and his dad are both totally convinced that he is good enough to go pro and his dad is spending fortunes on equipment, designer clothes & lessons etc, he is even trying to get him a place at a yank uni. The dad went spare when another golfer said that the boy had no chance being off 19 at 17.

Again, I'm sure there are many fine junior golfers around, I have unfortunately yet to meet them.

 

[theeaglehunter]

Homer and Jon you are both hereby invited to come and play as a guest of mine with myself and some other juniors at my club to set the record straight! I am sure there can be people such as you describe- there are junior members like that at my course- but they are the minority and to be ignored. I would say though that I have never met a junior who demonstrates slow play and that is the honest truth, there is no way juniors can be considered worse than seniors for this. Not in my experience anyway.

As for the 17 year old off 19 making it pro thats a joke. When I first took up the game I thought I may have a chance (just because I didn't know the standard you had to be)- then I met a 10 year old off 12. I was quickly put in my place!

 

[vig]

The juniors at my club that I have come across are generally polite and courteous. I can accept that there are likely to be some rogues but these should be the exception rather than the rule. If they do behave in an unreasonable manner then approach them and tell them.
The ladies are also generally ok. I've found the worst culprits are the old guys who don't give a toss about etiquette or anyone else who plays the course.

 

[medwayjon]

Theeaglehunter,

I am sure you are correct, it is just my experience.

I am seriously not kidding when I talk about the practise swings, the putting and the other things. We have juniors who take over 6 HOURS in a medal round, I kid you not.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Eaglehunter

I'm sure your are correct in everything you say but I'm speaking purely from my own experiences at both my own club, local pay and plays and as visitors to other local clubs. I think there is some mileage in the junior debate and will be approaching GM this week as I have an idea for an article/blog on the subject of juniors.

As for turning pro off 19 at 17 well that is just ludicrous. I have spoken many times about being a low single figure player at 16 and working as the assistant at Wimbledon Common and how I was not good enough to win our own club championship and when I played in several assistant events the gulf in my ability was even more exaggerated. I would have loved to have turned pro and become PGA qualified and found myself a nice club somewhere and had a nice living running the shop, teaching etc but I was never going to be good enough to earn enough cash via my playing skills

 

[USER1999]

I am afraid it is the ladies in my club once again. Half of them are fine, but the other half (based around a some what cliquey group) are just plain nasty. When we had our Junior open, one of the girl entrants was reduced to tears in the pro shop after a series of nasty remarks by an ex captains wife regarding the length (or lack thereof) of her skirt. Because she was a 'lady', no disciplinary action was taken.

It is ironic really, as she went out and won it.

Doubly so, as she had been thinking of joining our club, but now won't.

 

[viscount17]

homer/jon - I've played with eagle. be assured the future of golf is safe!

from the sound of it I am incredibly fortunate in my choice of club and course, even with the pay and play that we get.
yes, there are one or two obnoxious idiots (and almost never seniors nor ladies but mostly the 'I can get round in 2 1/2 hours so get out of my way' brigade) but then they would be obnoxious and idiots anywhere.
I have only had occasion to speak to some juniors once (the course was busy and they were lolling around on the greens rather than move out of the way while waiting). yes you get some (too many) who think that they are budding Tiger's but one on one most are fine. then you come across a couple of kids like Sanjit (12) and Harry (11), boy are they good! and they have learnt and practice course etiquette - make's it all worth while.

 

[minty18]

Had one of my mates been struck from a ball by a man or women i would have wacked the ball into the nearest bit of rough or open fairway (probly would have topped it 5yds though).

Nothing is worse than this for me and it sends me over the edge (bit like in me, myself, and irene when the music starts and carey just loses it).

Makes my blood boil and definitely ruins the rest of my round.

 

[Cernunnos]

but mostly the 'I can get round in 2 1/2 hours so get out of my way' brigade) but then they would be obnoxious and idiots anywhere.

Now I'm not a slow player, though I do like to take enough time to try & play the best I can, but you are quite right about these idiots that think they can get round in less than 3 hours even on a 7000+ yard course. One such idiot & he was a senior who had no regard for anything or anyone else was firing shots past my other half as she making her swing. Now she maybe far from the best player & can't hit the ball too far or that consistently, but, she doesn't hold up play unduely & if the course were to have been clear we'd have let this idiot through in a trice, especially sooner if he hadn't behaved as he had. But as it happened on that day we were actually waiting for others infront of us.

Did we go around pelting balls at the groups in front of us, certainly not.

In the end it un-nerved my other half that much she stopped playing for a number of holes & when she did tee up again she hit her ball right into the rough, something she never does, her balls if anything normally are pulled left, but still usually safe. I took this oppertunity to let Mr Old & impatient through to see that he really couldn't get any further & we were more than able to keep right up behind him & his partner.

Why when people are on holiday like that do they feel the need to spoil other peoples rounds like that. Yes we all want to get back to the hotel for dinner, but the restaurant was serving right up until 9-30 that night. Even with letting Mr impatient & a rather nice pair of lads, who were clearly much better players than Mr Old & impatient & his missus & because they hadn't crowded us, we let them through, when I pulled a drive & a provisional left, giving me time to fallow down the fairway & locate, as itwas quite easily. We still managed to get back to the hotel, dismantle all our equipment, trolleys, bags, batteries, put them away in the lockers, have time to spend a good ten minutes chatting with some local members for 10 minutes near the bar, before going to the room, showering & still were over half an hour earlier sitting down to dinner, than the time weed booked for. (9-15)

Infact, I worked out how long the round took us, even with letting others through & all the waiting about & it only took 4 hours start to finish, hardly a long round all things considered. Knowing Fridays were busy we actually allowed 5 hours for the round, a time we got no-where near.

At the end of the day as long as people are considerate to both those infront, by not crowding, or hitting balls to their heals & those behind, by clearing greens when able to do so (allowing for giving the group in front space to tee off, all should run smoothly & enjoyably for all concerned.

 

[USER1999]

As a general point - I really struggle to see what anyone can do on a golf course that takes 5 hours.

Yeah, 2 1/2 hours is easily possible for a 2 ball on an empty course, but obviously when it is busy, it will take longer, and may be joining up into 4s makes a lot of sense, rather than playing through all the time.

I can see your point by the way Cernunnos, and am not having a dig at you for slow play, you can only play as fast as the group in front, and a lack of distance off the tee, or experience does not make a slow golfer necessarily.

Just golf should never take anywhere near 5 hours, and as long as this is viewed as normal, it will get even slower.

 

[GB72]

The problem as I see it is that few of the clubs I know make much effort to control the flow on the course. If it is a busy day then the club should look to join groups up rather than send out a stream of 2 balls and solo golfers.